Lost

[Deleted]

I'm already putting the Total-Lost collection on my list for Christmas. And it better have commentary and extras to last me for MONTHS!

[Strawberry]

You know, somethings been bothering me and maybe you guys can help me either confirm or debunk this. It's sort of taken for granted that Jacob is the truth-teller and MiB is the liar but from what I can tell- MiB hasn't told a single lie. He admits he let Claire believe 'others' had her baby so that she could hate and go on. (He could have meant the others she came with but allowed Claire to take it how she wanted) He admitted to being the Smoke monster. He admitted he was Christian, admitted he had killed people. He seems to tell the truth even when it wouldn't seem to benefit him much.

On the other hand we have Jacob, who says what we all think we're supposed to believe- he's good, Smokey is bad. He would never take anyone's choice away. He only wants to help people help themselves.

Jacob cheated in the game of black and white while MiB was adamant about the rules. Smokey asked Jacob not to say anything to Mother about the game ( not a lie, perse...) Jacob promised and broke his promise. MiB cared about the truth and from who and where he really came from, while Jacob didn't care. Jacob, as mentioned, has displayed numerous moments of violence. Attacking his brother, attacking Alpert...

Maybe when Jacob's mother said it was him(Jacob) and always him, what she meant was that it was always him that needed to be guarded. That's why MiB can't leave. She, too, was a liar, manipulater and prone to violence. Going into the light was worse than death...but wouldn't only dark hate the light? Her and Jacob were now 'one' and they want to keep the light away from everyone. She thanked Mib for killing her, maybe because it freed her soul? And maybe she knew what was going to come, that Jacob would imprison MiB as the Smoke monster and that he would have to remain to watch over Jacob? She knew their fate was sealed the way she wanted?



Ok, mad ramblings over.

[hikertrash]

I'm going to have to watch the episode another 10 times or so to even begin to understand what the hell was going on, but one thing really stood out immediately to me: MiB could see dead people just like Hurley.

[Deleted]

And Jacob couldn't. Very interesting.

[angelaudie]

It's sort of taken for granted that Jacob is the truth-teller and MiB is the liar but from what I can tell- MiB hasn't told a single lie. He admits he let Claire believe 'others' had her baby so that she could hate and go on.

I'm pretty sure Claire stated Mocke told her the Others had Aaron. I would also wager he was lying through his teeth when he claimed he only had Claire's best interests at heart when he told her the Others had Aaron.

Maybe when Jacob's mother said it was him(Jacob) and always him, what she meant was that it was always him that needed to be guarded. That's why MiB can't leave.

The problem with this theory is Jacob can leave the island unsupervised. It's considered safe for him to be off island and around people. MIB can't leave the island though.

Jacob cheated in the game of black and white while MiB was adamant about the rules.

According to various Lost sources the game they are playing is called Senet and the rules are actually highly debated. It appears different groups had different rules for the game. So, it's possible this hints at that Jacob and MIB have very different rules (something tells me MIB came to regret telling Jacob one day he could make up his own game and his own rules).

Jacob has had moment of violence but it seems these violent moments happened prior to meeting Richard. Jacob had never interacted with anyone other than crazy mom and MIB. He really didn't understand how humans operated. In his mind people should just automatically do the right thing. He didn't understand why people were just listening to MIB. Richard had to point out the painfully obvious-- how can you expect them to do the right thing when MIB is misleading them. Jacob needed a representative to spread his word (much like how God needed prophets to spread his).

If you think about it Jacob is a man of faith while MIB is the man of science. Jacob never questioned his mother and simply blindly followed her. Jacob blindly had faith in mankind's ability to be good. He never questions. He just believes. Meanwhile, MIB questioned life beyond the island and wanted to know where he came from (scientists question). MIB then manipulated others kinda like how scientists manipulate variables in their experiments. Finally, MIB really does experiment to find ways off the island.

I agree Mother decided to have them both guard the island. The island needs them both. It needs someone like Jacob to have faith in it. But it also needs someone like MIB who is willing to question and manipulate. Blindly following either path can lead to disaster (as this show as demonstrated on more than one occasion). But strike a balance between faith and logic and things will generally turn out ok.

[smitten]

I also think Mother might have been the Smoke Monster as well, because she also completely collapsed the well. Could she really have done that with simple human power?

[Deleted]

I wondered about MiB and Jacob too, but I think after the episode when Smokey tried to blow up the sub, it's clear he is evil/bad/selfish. MiB did lie. He didn't want everyone to leave the island with him, he wanted to kill them. He also lied to Claire about where her baby was. He lied to Sawyer about helping him leave the island. Mother tells MiB that Jacob can't lie, but tells MiB he is not like that, ie he is able to lie (as is Mother). When has Jacob lied? He may have not told everyone everything (as in Alpert's case), but I don't think he has lied.

In fact, I think that Jacob's insistence on people having a choice and not being told what to do may be because of the way Mother got him to become Guardian. Jacob didn't have a choice (or so Mother told him) and he didn't seem eager to guard the glowy cave but he did it anyway because he felt obligated to her. However, I think last night's ep also showed that MiB and Jacob started out as regular people: not all good or all evil. I really appreciated that shading of the characters.

In retrospect I now wonder whether Mother set the whole tragedy in motion. She knew Jacob would never kill her, but I think she wanted to die/leave her post. MiB was the one who could kill her and he did: after she very specifically let him live while killing the whole village of people. Did she realize what it would do to Jacob to see her killed? Not sure.

I really wonder how we'll look back on this episode after the finale. There's an interview with Damon and Carlton here that is quite interesting. Some questions answered about the this latest ep.

[angelaudie]

I also think Mother might have been the Smoke Monster as well, because she also completely collapsed the well. Could she really have done that with simple human power?

I agree she had to have been a Smoke Monster too. She was both a Guardian and a Smoke Monster. In theory, that could mean she struck a balance between faith and logic.

You know what I find so sad? It really seems that at one time MIB really loved Jacob. He repeatedly asked Jacob to join him. Even after MIB left the caves he still wanted to spend time with Jacob. There was no hint of resentment from MIB toward Jacob. The resentment seems to have started after MIB got Smokified.

[smitten]

Maybe he lost his humanity when he went into the Well of Souls. Meaning the light, not the donkey wheel well.

That actually reminds me of the thought I had when Mother was describing the light, maybe the four letter word for the island is soul, not cork?

[Ella]

I think she may have been smoky too. Damn this show!