More Unpopular Movie Opinions

[Mutagen]

I HATE Breakfast at Tiffany's for the same reason.

[kateln]

Dec 30, 2017 1:44:34 GMT -4 save lilo! said:

Gone with the Wind was awful.
Also how anyone sees Breakfast at Tiffany's as a classic with that racist portrayal of her neighbor is beyond me.

I used to love GWTW because of the clothes. That's about it, I have no interest in watching it now. Same thing with Breakfast at Tiffany's, there are some movies that are so good that I can go "ok...different time..." but those movies (and a few others) really push it too far for me.

[chonies]

I was in a version of this conversation about GWTW and Griffiths' Birth of a Nation a few weeks ago so I want to take the temperature of this thread—“awful” as in devoid of cinematic merit and has always been overrated? Too dated to watch? Something else? Too awful to watch because it presents a cultural and moral conflict outside the confines of the film? To some extent, I mean this in film school/canon way, but also within the general population.

I watch a shitwack* of TCM and there is no shortage of this kind of problem. In some light, it’s a variation on the “separating the artist from the art” question, but from other perspectives, it isn’t.

ETA: I think Breakfast at Tiffany’s doesn’t occupy the same social or cultural niche as GWTW, and superficially at least, the onscreen racial grossness seem very different (one ”yellow face” character v. multiple Black actors who have more dynamic roles that are troublesome and also perpetuate problems).

*sometimes a fuckton, depending.

[Deleted]

[wannabe film major cap on] I think it's generally accepted by film historians these days that Birth of a Nation is considered a classic only for the technical aspects. It was incredibly groundbreaking in 1915 and represented the first usage of many techniques that are common today, i.e. close-ups, fade outs, long-form stories, using multiple camera angles to make a small crowd look like a large one, and so on and so forth. D.W. Griffith, while a racist jackass, was a true visionary and had a considerable effect on filmmaking as we know it today. Before Birth of a Nation came out most movies were relatively short, linear, and straight-forward and thus incredibly limited in their storytelling. Outside of the technical breakthroughs it's regarded as morally repugnant and quite damaging in regards to it's effects on society. It's thought by some to have spurred on the revival of the KKK in the 1920s & 30s.

Gone with the Wind has many of the same issues, though not quite as extreme as Birth of a Nation. It was for it's time technically brilliant and a huge breakthrough (it helped usher in the age of color movies along with The Wizard of Oz that year) but, seen through a modern lens, is quite problematic in many ways. One also has to consider that when you adjust for inflation it is still the highest-grossing movie of all time. More people bought a ticket for that movie in theaters than any other movie in history. It was a cultural phenomenon that personally I don't think should be written off because of the admittedly problematic ways it treats African-American characters and the fall-out from the Civil War. Which is not to say that everyone must love it or even watch it. I've never seen and don't plan to ever see Casablanca, even though I do understand that it deserves it's place in the canon. It's just not my bag. [/wannabe film major cap off]

I suppose I find it easier to separate the art from the artist in these cases, particularly considering the times in which they were produced. In 1915 and 1939 America, the views expressed in these movies were not only normal but widely accepted.

[laurenj]

Dec 31, 2017 18:18:02 GMT -4 kateln said:

Dec 30, 2017 1:44:34 GMT -4 save lilo! said:

Gone with the Wind was awful.
Also how anyone sees Breakfast at Tiffany's as a classic with that racist portrayal of her neighbor is beyond me.

I used to love GWTW because of the clothes. That's about it, I have no interest in watching it now. Same thing with Breakfast at Tiffany's, there are some movies that are so good that I can go "ok...different time..." but those movies (and a few others) really push it too far for me.

Vivien Leigh and Clark Gable's performances in GWTW make the movie for me, those two had a genuinely compelling chemistry, IMO. Also, Olivia DeHavilland is impressive in a character that I can't relate to, but admire. I do wish they'd gotten somebody better for Ashley Wilkes, the actor was too old and nothing about him made me believe that Scarlet would have pined for him.

Gone with the Wind has many of the same issues, though not quite as extreme as Birth of a Nation. It was for it's time technically brilliant and a huge breakthrough (it helped usher in the age of color movies along with The Wizard of Oz that year) but, seen through a modern lens, is quite problematic in many ways. One also has to consider that when you adjust for inflation it is still the highest-grossing movie of all time. More people bought a ticket for that movie in theaters than any other movie in history. It was a cultural phenomenon that personally I don't think should be written off because of the admittedly problematic ways it treats African-American characters and the fall-out from the Civil War. Which is not to say that everyone must love it or even watch it. I've never seen and don't plan to ever see Casablanca, even though I do understand that it deserves it's place in the canon. It's just not my bag. [/wannabe film major cap off]

I suppose I find it easier to separate the art from the artist in these cases, particularly considering the times in which they were produced. In 1915 and 1939 America, the views expressed in these movies were not only normal but widely accepted.

Agreed. I haven't seen Birth of a Nation or Breakfast at Tiffany's, but as far as GWTW goes, it can't be separated from the time it was made.

[save lilo!]

GWTW might have been interesting from a technical "film major cap" point of view -- that's fine.

My unpopular opinion was that it was boring, long-winded, the characters were unlikeable and I could not sympathize with anyone. My general view is that a classic film, as this is regarded, should withstand the test of time regardless of "well it was a different era". I think most of the general population seem to like this movie for the characters, story, actors, etc. more than I don't know, the direction or cinematography of it? Maybe I am wrong and maybe everyone who idealizes this movie really are huge filmmaking history buffs. I kinda doubt that most people think about the film in deeper terms as posters on this board do.

[chonies]

Good points, save lilo. Most of the people I know who idolize GWTW are Southern women of a certain age who are well-educated and progressively minded. When I asked them about it (casually! Not for anything deep), they admired Scarlett’s cunning and hustle, and how she was a fighter. They also usually referenced the book and how it was different—I haven’t read it. On an emotional level, they also had nostalgic memories of watching it with family and friends. I wonder if the story’s details about slavery/Reconstruction is a low-stakes reflection/confrontation that part of their local and family history. And since I’m shameless, I’ll ask.

I don't care for GWTW, either, and mostly for the "long, boring, weird story" reasons. I liked it when I was really young because of the costumes, but the intrigue was either over my head or boring, and I STILL don't know why Ashley was such an object of desire, other than unattainability. I also don't know many people under 50 who really like the movie, so there's that.

laurenj, did you like Vivien Leigh's Scarlet right away, or was it something that grew on you?

ETA: I really dislike the Star Wars franchise, but all the reviews and essays and social media posts about how the new installment is very much about smashing the patriarchy is kind of pushing me to see it. Ugh, so conflicted.

[Ginger]

I loooooove Gone With the Wind. I've been watching it since I was a child, and the only thing that stops me from watching it every time it's on TV is that it requires a 4 1/2 hour investment. It is epic melodrama that hits everything perfectly - thwarted romance, sentimentality, music, costumes, sets, and flouncy performances. I practically tear up just hearing the GWTW theme.

Racially and culturally, it is a product of its time and place and needs to be viewed as such, but I can see how those things might ruin someone's enjoyment. I mentioned to someone that the movie is "pro Klan" and she didn't know what I was talking about. I explained that when Ashley and Rhett and the other southern gentleman take matters into their own hands to clear "the darkies" out of the woods and subsequently need to evade the police - that would be Klan activity. I definitely did not make that connection when I was kid.

[save lilo!]

Jan 5, 2018 12:08:44 GMT -4 Ginger said:

I loooooove Gone With the Wind. I've been watching it since I was a child, and the only thing that stops me from watching it every time it's on TV is that it requires a 4 1/2 hour investment. It is epic melodrama that hits everything perfectly - thwarted romance, sentimentality, music, costumes, sets, and flouncy performances. I practically tear up just hearing the GWTW theme.

Racially and culturally, it is a product of its time and place and needs to be viewed as such, but I can see how those things might ruin someone's enjoyment. I mentioned to someone that the movie is "pro Klan" and she didn't know what I was talking about. I explained that when Ashley and Rhett and the other southern gentleman take matters into their own hands to clear "the darkies" out of the woods and subsequently need to evade the police - that would be Klan activity. I definitely did not make that connection when I was kid.

This is so why I’m down with contemporary remakes. I would love it if all these movies that people think are great can be remade with diverse casts and more cultural sensitivity so my imaginary kids could also love good stories and good storytelling without the problematic ingredients. There are a lot of movies I didn’t grow up watching as a kid of immigrant parents so watching supposed classics as an adult obviously colors my view. Also I have no nostalgia over “good old days” type of period movies where I basically wouldn’t exist or be treated as a human person with rights, so as I grow older, I find it harder to connect with the sentimentality that other people feel when they rewatch movies they saw as a child.

I must have watched GWTW in high school though because I remember watching it on a TV as a “Special Presentation” with limited commercials. I still sometimes read Wikipedia articles about it because I am still made to feel by other people that I’m clearly missing something. So I’m glad this thread exists!

[americanchai]

I've only seen GWTW once and I was surprised that I enjoyed it. I really hated Scarlett and Rhett. I thought they were awful but the film was good. I have zero interest in reading the book.

I've never liked Vivien Leigh - I thought she was awful in A Streetcar Named Desire. She was a loopier, not-in-control Scarlett with a worse accent as Blanche.