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Post by Mutagen on Jan 2, 2020 10:49:33 GMT -4
I do not understand how we as a society all spent years collectively ripping on Twilight for the creepy central relationship, yet Reylo is seen as even remotely valid? I mean at least Edward Cullen's little vampire coven wasn't actively genocidal. I honestly don't blame John Boyega for snapping; I really think Finn was sidelined as a love interest for Rey and as a character in general because Disney got cold feet about having a black lead character. That a white dude who literally murders his way through the first movie is seen as a more viable romance option for the female lead is honestly regressive compared to the 1970s Star Wars movies.
FinnPoe would have been arguably the healthiest possible relationship option left among the main cast...
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Post by kostgard on Jan 2, 2020 14:57:06 GMT -4
I do not understand how we as a society all spent years collectively ripping on Twilight for the creepy central relationship, yet Reylo is seen as even remotely valid? I mean at least Edward Cullen's little vampire coven wasn't actively genocidal. I honestly don't blame John Boyega for snapping; I really think Finn was sidelined as a love interest for Rey and as a character in general because Disney got cold feet about having a black lead character. That a white dude who literally murders his way through the first movie is seen as a more viable romance option for the female lead is honestly regressive compared to the 1970s Star Wars movies. FinnPoe would have been arguably the healthiest possible relationship option left among the main cast... Wouldn’t surprise me. Oscar Isaac has basically been saying that FinnPoe didn’t happen because the Disney overlords are cowards (and FinnPoe would definitely be the healthiest). Then I swear he just decided to play the character like they were a thing whenever he could (I swear in parts of TRS Poe was acting just like a jealous boyfriend). I could see them wimping out on FinnRey. And JB ain’t wrong about Rey/Kylo. Like, I get there’s this Force connection, but girl, he’s a mass murderer. I’d think JB has gotta be pissed about getting sidelined in general. I mean, the first movie in this trilogy was his, essentially. His story and Rey’s story. Second movie he got his own plot line and new love interest. Third movie? All of that gone. Rose got literally about 74 seconds of screen time. And not with Finn (at least not in any meaningful way). This movie he spends 90% of his time screaming, “Rey!” and chasing after her but not actually talking to her or having meaningful interactions. Then he meets someone who is another potential love interest? I guess? And she’s black like him so it’s okay? I mean, the character was fine and I found the actress quite appealing, but why introduce a new character that late in the game while you are sidelining established characters? Again, I thought the movie was fine. Don’t hate it. Not mad I spent money on it. But it does feel like they took the wimpy route on a lot of stuff and if they did it to capitulate to the vocal fans who didn’t like the previous movie, then that is REALLY too bad because they catered to the worst of the fandom and taught them if they throw a loud fit they will get what they want. I was listening to the “I Hate It But I Love It” podcast episode on this movie, and they said it was like the whole time the filmmakers were saying, “So, this is going to happen - sorry! I’m sorry!” so not a lot had conviction. |
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Post by Mutagen on Jan 2, 2020 15:17:06 GMT -4
See, I think The Last Jedi is where Finn's sidelining started; even a lot of people who liked that movie commented that the sidequest to Gambler Planet was lackluster. It could have been cut out of the movie with only minor tweaks to the plot. I think The Last Jedi also heavily validated Reylo with the shirtless scene and Luke's comment implying she was attracted to him.
I've been really critical of The Last Jedi, but the thing is, I would happily eat my words if it turned out that it was a divisive, controversial movie that was setting up a great payoff. Instead I think it was just kind of trolling for its own sake. For me, any lessons about feminism or progressiveness ring false because of that. Either way it's clear there was no real plan with this trilogy, so at the last minute they just tried to check off as many boxes as they could.
I won't lie though, Isaac and Boyega openly giving NO fucks has made this one of the most entertaining press cycles ever. I hope they get the romantic comedy they deserve someday.
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Post by kostgard on Jan 2, 2020 20:37:41 GMT -4
I've been really critical of The Last Jedi, but the thing is, I would happily eat my words if it turned out that it was a divisive, controversial movie that was setting up a great payoff. Instead I think it was just kind of trolling for its own sake. For me, any lessons about feminism or progressiveness ring false because of that. Either way it's clear there was no real plan with this trilogy, so at the last minute they just tried to check off as many boxes as they could. I don't think Rian Johnson meant it that way - I think he was genuinely trying to do something new with the franchise. Let's look at how other people in the galaxy are living with all these wars going on - so he showed us how the super-rich were profiting off the wars and cruelty in general (I don't think the casino planet segment worked that well, but it was a good idea). I think he wanted to show that heroes make mistakes and can lose faith and you don't have to have a certain name to be special. I think that was all good/interesting stuff and they should have built on it. But I agree that it is VERY clear that there was no plan here, which is unbelievably stupid. This is a billion dollar franchise and no one could be arsed to outline where they wanted this new trilogy to go? Especially since the original plan was a new director for each film (Abrams only stepped in for this third film when they original director fell through)? That's just wildly stupid and I can't believe those dummies did it like that. It really should have been like, "Okay new director, you are free to color in the spaces, but here is what you need to achieve with these characters in this installment" but it's quite clear that didn't happen. They really just told Rian Johnson to do whatever he wanted, then decided they didn't like what he did (also - was no one paying attention during filming? Was no one looking at the dailies or read the script?) and ignored most of it for the third film. ETA: Here’s the editor of the film talking about what a rush job it was.Again, I can’t believe they were so half-assed about this franchise. Why? |
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Nov 27, 2024 21:37:14 GMT -4
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2020 10:45:56 GMT -4
They needed someone like Kevin Feige, who’s been overseeing all the MCU movies. Someone whose job it is to keep track of the overarching plot and make sure all the filmmakers working on the different movies make them fit that plot. Whatever problems the MCU has, at least they knew where they wanted the story to end up and could work towards it.
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Post by Mutagen on Jan 3, 2020 11:37:35 GMT -4
I've been really critical of The Last Jedi, but the thing is, I would happily eat my words if it turned out that it was a divisive, controversial movie that was setting up a great payoff. Instead I think it was just kind of trolling for its own sake. For me, any lessons about feminism or progressiveness ring false because of that. Either way it's clear there was no real plan with this trilogy, so at the last minute they just tried to check off as many boxes as they could. I don't think Rian Johnson meant it that way - I think he was genuinely trying to do something new with the franchise. Let's look at how other people in the galaxy are living with all these wars going on - so he showed us how the super-rich were profiting off the wars and cruelty in general (I don't think the casino planet segment worked that well, but it was a good idea). I think he wanted to show that heroes make mistakes and can lose faith and you don't have to have a certain name to be special. I think that was all good/interesting stuff and they should have built on it. I think those are fine ideas in concept. I have a lot of problems with TLJ's execution of those concepts, but I have to wonder if a lot of those problems would be mitigated if it were a standalone movie. Basically similar to what Rogue One did, which was able to get away with more morally gray heroes and a pretty daring ending because it was playing with (mostly) new characters. Movie 8 of a 9-part series, in my opinion, is not the place to suddenly reset to zero unless you've got a really good plan/reason behind it. At the end of the day though, you're right - Disney signed off on that. I think it's kind of funny when you consider that nearly every other Disney Star Wars movie had directors getting fired left and right. Somehow the one movie with no such turmoil ended up being the most divisive of the bunch. |
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Post by kostgard on Jan 3, 2020 11:48:36 GMT -4
At the end of the day though, you're right - Disney signed off on that. I think it's kind of funny when you consider that nearly every other Disney Star Wars movie had directors getting fired left and right. Somehow the one movie with no such turmoil ended up being the most divisive of the bunch. That does make no sense at all. They fired people all over the place because they didn’t like their “vision” but apparently let RJ do whatever he wanted and only upon the reaction to the final product went, “We don’t like it. Pretend it didn’t happen.” (For the record, I do like TLJ, though it does have issues). But these are the same people who decided to rush the final installment to the point where the editor was cutting the film as they filmed it, so “good thinking” is clearly not their forte. |
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Post by ratscabies on Jan 3, 2020 12:12:06 GMT -4
None of the last three had JarJar Binks.
They win.
Carry on with philosophical discussion. My stage manager will berate me, on y’all’s behalf, as we drive to Chicago, for my shallow assessment of the majesty of that galaxy far, far away.
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Post by Mutagen on Jan 3, 2020 12:25:25 GMT -4
Honestly if these movies had validated the "Darth JarJar" theory I think I would have forgiven EVERYTHING else.
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Post by ratscabies on Jan 3, 2020 15:59:26 GMT -4
Honestly if these movies had validated the "Darth JarJar" theory I think I would have forgiven EVERYTHING else. “Darth Jar Jar” might be a candidate for a new name for Trump! |
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