Louis C.K.

[dragonflie]

This is true (the above... pulling content because of its rawness, etc)... but it irks me and actually frightens me for 2 whole different reasons. I am 100% anti-censorship, and this just reeks of deleting the past (instead of facing it). That is a slippery slope- in my opinion.
Also- it creates this weird contrast. If you do bad evil things your work will be deleted... kinda... maybe. But, again- all of Louis CK gone- but Casey Affleck, (hell- what about Ben Affleck??- there were like 5-10 accusations recently), Weinstein- all of his movies should be gone? Woody Allen?, etc... etc... So- that I can still pull up a Woody Allen film, but all of Louis CK will be deleted worries me because it creates this area where some people "pay" for their actions, and others don't. It rings false to me, and makes me think the entire industry hasn't changed at all- but is just attempting to erase the current problem (and not work on the actual issue itself). It feels totally shallow.

[prisma]

I think the whole "taking responsibility" instead of blaming or ignoring the victim is so new that people/companies don't know how to respond. So perhaps they're erring on the side of overly cautious right now.

I don't like censorship either, but living in Alabama where all the politicians seem to be excusing Roy Moore for dating teens when he was a professional in his 30s, it's nice to see some consequences come down in Louis' case. If Roy Moore did what Louis did, people would say "Oh, it's not like it was rape" so I'm ok with his work being pulled right now until it can be letterboxed with appropriate disclaimers or however they chose to handle or frame it.

[magazinewhore]

You guys all make great points, particularly about the rawness of it and how his work has so much masturbation material in it.

I don't think it's good to erase their lives or work. Wouldn't it be a better message for them to take ownership and say, "I now understand why this is wrong and I understand my impulses better" and we as men need to be better. Demonizing anyone doesn't help anyone. (I mean, yes, in Weinstein's case because it's so crazy). And this stuff is a great learning moment for a lot of people.

[Deleted]

Nov 10, 2017 14:35:31 GMT -4 dragonflie said:

I thought him and Pamela Adlon were a couple?

So... maybe unpopular- but hear me out... I don't get some of the reaction. Here's what I mean: I DO get the anger/outrage, etc at his actions (and disgust... just ... sigh- it is disgusting). What I don't get is this: all of a sudden all of his stuff is being pulled. I do understand his current projects, but I read that HBO is deleting access to his entire catalogue. Ok, but... Woody Allen, Polanski, Mel Gibson, Casey Affleck, even Spacey. Are we now going to delete entire catalogues as if they never existed? And for who? I guess I don't get the selective outrage.

Are they going to delete every Weinstein/Miramax film ever made?

Le sigh... yes, the rumours were rampant for a long time- I was hoping they were false... but alas.

ETA- his statement is "good"- in that it takes responsibility and is contrite. But... I just can't get past the surrealness of it. Really Louis??? You had to LEARN that it wasn't ok the masturbate in front of women at will/random whilst you trapped them in a closet/room? Like, is that the level we are at now? Where we have to teach the most obvious basic things to people or else they will just be pulling out their penises and rubbing them on us- because- well, how were they to know that wasn't ok??!! WTF.

Maybe it has something to do with how he gets paid by Netflix; he gets paid per view, and they don't want him making money off them once he's admitted to this crap?

[HotLips]

Nov 10, 2017 14:35:31 GMT -4 dragonflie said:

ETA- his statement is "good"- in that it takes responsibility and is contrite. But... I just can't get past the surrealness of it. Really Louis??? You had to LEARN that it wasn't ok the masturbate in front of women at will/random whilst you trapped them in a closet/room? Like, is that the level we are at now? Where we have to teach the most obvious basic things to people or else they will just be pulling out their penises and rubbing them on us- because- well, how were they to know that wasn't ok??!! WTF.

I think his statement was well crafted bullshit. He's only remorseful because he got caught and his career is now damaged. Like you said, he's a grown man who seems intelligent enough. If he'd spent a moment thinking about it he should have realized that masturbating in front of these women would emotionally damage them. I'm sure he heard "No, please put your dick away" on a regular basis. But he continued to whip it out because he didn't care about anything except his own gratification. I think he's a sociopath tbh. The only difference between him and some random perv who jerks off at the bus station is power and money.

[Auroranorth]

We edited Louis C.K.’s “apology” to make it a real apology

[Deleted]

Stealing from someone on Twitter - "Louis CK didn't apologize. He just confessed."

[danadel]

Nov 10, 2017 17:04:54 GMT -4 HotLips said:

Nov 10, 2017 14:35:31 GMT -4 dragonflie said:

ETA- his statement is "good"- in that it takes responsibility and is contrite. But... I just can't get past the surrealness of it. Really Louis??? You had to LEARN that it wasn't ok the masturbate in front of women at will/random whilst you trapped them in a closet/room? Like, is that the level we are at now? Where we have to teach the most obvious basic things to people or else they will just be pulling out their penises and rubbing them on us- because- well, how were they to know that wasn't ok??!! WTF.

I think his statement was well crafted bullshit. He's only remorseful because he got caught and his career is now damaged. Like you said, he's a grown man who seems intelligent enough. If he'd spent a moment thinking about it he should have realized that masturbating in front of these women would emotionally damage them. I'm sure he heard "No, please put your dick away" on a regular basis. But he continued to whip it out because he didn't care about anything except his own gratification. I think he's a sociopath tbh. The only difference between him and some random perv who jerks off at the bus station is power and money.

Didn’t he also say he didn’t realize his position of power in the comedy world silenced them? That’s bullshit.

[luminosa]

Apologies if this is too long but I feel like this is an important read to have in it's totality. Written by a Ellen Page-

“You should fuck her to make her realize she’s gay.” He said this about me during a cast and crew “meet and greet” before we began filming, X Men: The Last Stand. I was eighteen years old. He looked at a woman standing next to me, ten years my senior, pointed to me and said: “You should fuck her to make her realize she’s gay.” He was the film’s director, Brett Ratner.

I was a young adult who had not yet come out to myself. I knew I was gay, but did not know, so to speak. I felt violated when this happened. I looked down at my feet, didn’t say a word and watched as no one else did either. This man, who had cast me in the film, started our months of filming at a work event with this horrific, unchallenged plea. He “outed” me with no regard for my well-being, an act we all recognize as homophobic. I proceeded to watch him on set say degrading things to women. I remember a woman walking by the monitor as he made a comment about her “flappy pussy”.

We are all entitled to come into an awareness of our sexual orientation privately and on our own terms. I was young and although already a working actor for so long I had in many ways been insulated, growing up on film sets instead of surrounded by my peers. This public, aggressive outing left me with long standing feelings of shame, one of the most destructive results of homophobia. Making someone feel ashamed of who they are is a cruel manipulation, designed to oppress and repress. I was robbed of more than autonomy over my ability to define myself. Ratner’s comment replayed in my mind many times over the years as I encountered homophobia and coped with feelings of reluctance and uncertainty about the industry and my future in it. The difference is that I can now assert myself and use my voice to to fight back against the insidious queer and transphobic attitude in Hollywood and beyond. Hopefully having the position I have, I can help people who may be struggling to be accepted and allowed to be who they are –to thrive. Vulnerable young people without my advantages are so often diminished and made to feel they have no options for living the life they were meant to joyously lead.

I got into an altercation with Brett at a certain point. He was pressuring me, in front of many people, to don a t-shirt with “Team Ratner” on it. I said no and he insisted. I responded, “I am not on your team.” Later in the day, producers of the film came to my trailer to say that I “couldn’t talk like that to him.” I was being reprimanded, yet he was not being punished nor fired for the blatantly homophobic and abusive behavior we all witnessed. I was an actor that no one knew. I was eighteen and had no tools to know how to handle the situation.

I have been a professional actor since the age of ten. I’ve had the good fortune to work with many honorable and respectful collaborators both behind and in front of the camera. But the behavior I’m describing is ubiquitous. They (abusers), want you to feel small, to make you insecure, to make you feel like you are indebted to them, or that your actions are to blame for their unwelcome advances.

When I was sixteen a director took me to dinner (a professional obligation and a very common one). He fondled my leg under the table and said, “You have to make the move, I can’t.” I did not make the move and I was fortunate to get away from that situation. It was a painful realization: my safety was not guaranteed at work. An adult authority figure for whom I worked intended to exploit me, physically. I was sexually assaulted by a grip months later. I was asked by a director to sleep with a man in his late twenties and to tell them about it. I did not. This is just what happened during my sixteenth year, a teenager in the entertainment industry.

Look at the history of what’s happened to minors who’ve described sexual abuse in Hollywood. Some of them are no longer with us, lost to substance abuse and suicide. Their victimizers? Still working. Protected even as I write this. You know who they are; they’ve been discussed behind closed doors as often as Weinstein was. If I, a person with significant privilege, remain reluctant and at such risk simply by saying a person’s name, what are the options for those who do not have what I have?

Let’s remember the epidemic of violence against women in our society disproportionately affects low income women, particularly women of color, trans and queer women and indigenous women, who are silenced by their economic circumstances and profound mistrust of a justice system that acquits the guilty in the face of overwhelming evidence and continues to oppress people of color. I have the means to hire security if I feel threatened. I have the wealth and insurance to receive mental health care. I have the privilege of having a platform that enables me to write this and have it published, while the most marginalized do not have access to such resources. The reality is, women of color, trans and queer and indigenous women have been leading this fight for decades (forever actually). Marsha P. Johnson, Sylvia Rivera, Winona LaDuke, Miss Major, Audre Lorde, bell hooks, to name a few. Misty Upham fought tirelessly to end violence against indigenous women, domestic workers and undocumented women. Misty was found dead at the bottom of a cliff three years ago. Her father, Charles Upham, just made a Facebook post saying she was raped at a party by a Miramax executive. The most marginalized have been left behind. As a cis, white lesbian, I have benefited and have the privileges I have, because of these extraordinary and courageous individuals who have led the way and risked their lives while doing so. White supremacy continues to silence people of color, while I have the rights I have because of these leaders. They are who we should be listening to and learning from.

These abusers make us feel powerless and overwhelmed by their empire. Let’s not forget the sitting Supreme Court justice and President of the United States. One accused of sexual harassment by Anita Hill, whose testimony was discredited. The other proudly describing his own pattern of assault to an entertainment reporter. How many men in the media – titans of industry - need to be exposed for us to understand the gravity of the situation and to demand the fundamental safety and respect that is our right?

Bill Cosby was known to be predatory. The crimes were his, but many were complicit. Many more chose to look the other way. Harvey was known to be predatory. The crimes were his, but many were complicit. Many more chose to look the other way. We continue to celebrate filmmaker Roman Polanski, who was convicted of drugging and anally raping a young girl and who fled sentencing. A fugitive from justice. I’ve heard the industry decry Weinstein’s behavior and vow to affect meaningful change. But let’s be truthful: the list is long and still protected by the status quo. We have work to do. We cannot look the other way.

I did a Woody Allen movie and it is the biggest regret of my career. I am ashamed I did this. I had yet to find my voice and was not who I am now and felt pressured, because “of course you have to say yes to this Woody Allen film.” Ultimately, however, it is my choice what films I decide to do and I made the wrong choice. I made an awful mistake.

I want to see these men have to face what they have done. I want them to not have power anymore. I want them to sit and think about who they are without their lawyers, their millions, their fancy cars, houses upon houses, their “playboy” status and swagger.

What I want the most, is for this to result in healing for the victims. For Hollywood to wake up and start taking some responsibility for how we all have played a role in this. I want us to reflect on this endemic issue and how this power dynamic of abuse leads to an enormous amount of suffering. Violence against women is an epidemic in this country and around the world. How is this cascade of immorality and injustice shaping our society? One of the greatest risks to a pregnant woman’s health in the United States is murder. Trans women of color in this country have a life expectancy of thirty-five. Why are we not addressing this as a society? We must remember the consequences of such actions. Mental health issues, suicide, eating disorders, substance abuse, to name a few.

What are we afraid to say and why can’t we say it? Women, particularly the most marginalized, are silenced, while powerful abusers can scream as loudly as they want, lie as much as they want and continue to profit through it all.

This is a long awaited reckoning. It must be. It’s sad that“codes of conduct” have to be enforced to ensure we experience fundamental human decency and respect. Inclusion and representation are the answer. We’ve learned that the status quo perpetuates unfair, victimizing behavior to protect and perpetuate itself. Don’t allow this behavior to be normalized. Don’t compare wrongs or criminal acts by their degrees of severity. Don’t allow yourselves to be numb to the voices of victims coming forward. Don’t stop demanding our civil rights. I am grateful to anyone and everyone who speaks out against abuse and trauma they have suffered. You are breaking the silence. You are revolution.

[Gigiree]

Slow clap, for Ms. Page. That was awesome...