The Un-US Politics Discussion Scenario

[chonies]

I was reluctant to connect the dots--since Spain's cultural issues are centuries old, and yet there is so much fragmenting elsewhere on the planet, I wasn't sure. Most of the coverage I've read (mainstream) is like, "Catalonians have been forbidden to have a vote, they have said the Spanish government doesn't allow them anything, so they're having a vote as an FU and organizing with WhatsApp." Other than the occasional mention of language differences, I haven't seen a lot of depth or coverage of what's at stake.

[Carolina]

I have no clue about Catalonian independence, but kind of admire the FU spirit.

Ireland is holding a referendum on abortion rights.

Question for UK Greecies- Jacob Rees-Mogg is just a really elaborate piece of performance art, right?

[chonies]

The Catalan poll results this morning were no surprise, especially after pictures of the police using force against the firefighters who were protecting the voters. When I was looking for news articles yesterday, RT was really sympathetic to the independence movement, and using OTT rhetoric. For a second I thought I was looking at Reuters but then I came to my senses and remembered it was Russia Times.

[Deleted]

Meanwhile Britain Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson has suggested that parts of Lybia could be next Dubai, if they clear the dead bodies away......

Good grief the adults really are gone AWOL!

[tabby]

Jan 28, 2017 19:55:22 GMT -4 @fitz said:

Meanwhile Britain Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson has suggested that parts of Lybia could be next Dubai, if they clear the dead bodies away......

Ah, Mad Boris never ceases to invent new, jaw-dropping ways to embarrass. Back in January, when he was in Myanmar, the British ambassador had to stop his quoting of The Road to Mandalay, one of Kipling's racist collection of verse, in front of a bunch of foreign dignitaries. The video came out last week.

[Deleted]

This fits here too delete it in Current Affairs thread if you see fit...

Woman died travelling* home after abortion

Our abortion law did that, gave a woman no choice but to travel. No one is asking for abortion "on demand" just for choice!! Give the women of Ireland, all of Ireland choice!

*changed from flying to traveling she was still returning home from UK.

By the way I've only seen 2 headlines about this and nothing on news no surprisethere!!

Rant! ...Don't give me what about all the unborn! Abortion clearly happens and because of our law an already difficult situation is even more so! But what about the children, we can't even house a very high percentage of the children already here we have an ever alarmingly increasing homelessness crisis here our helath service will leave children on waiting lists for years so do not give me the what about the children! This country does not care about the children when they are here or the mothers after never have.

Absolutely right there are no Utopias, The country is beautifulto look at and oh look all modern gay PM now...but rotten in the core, rotten....end rant!

Also my fear now is ref on abortion will happen and should it go with no change that's it I fear shut up shop you got your ref country decided done! ...now rant over! I have to get sorted for the day!

[Carolina]

From the Current Events thread:

Oct 12, 2017 7:08:13 GMT -4 @fitz said:

Patient died flying home after abortion

Our abortion law did that, gave a woman no choice but to travel. No one is asking for abortion "on demand" just for choice!! Give the women of Ireland, all of Ireland choice!

Awful, just awful. I'm sure if you asked the UK doctors performing the terminations that their ideal aftercare instructions would not include getting on a plane, but needs must for Irish women living under the 8th amendment. Not only do these women have no choice but to travel, but I'm sure most of these women have to unnecessarily delay their care in order to scrape together the money they need and make travel plans to another country. I wonder how many Irish women who could have had medical terminations end up having to have surgical terminations because of the time lapse.

I've doing a bit of reading about the 8th amendment and came across another frightening element- apparently Informed Consent does not apply to pregnant women.

From the linked article:

The HSE’s National Consent Policy restricts informed consent and informed refusal of treatment for pregnant women. To quote the policy page 41, Section 7.7.1 “because of the Constitutional provisions on the right to life of the unborn [Article 40.3.3] there is significant legal uncertainty regarding a pregnant woman’s right to [consent]”. This section of the policy allows the HSE to apply for injunctions from the High Court which compel pregnant women to receive treatment where they do not consent to proposed treatment plans, whether these are in line with international best practice or not.

This is in contrast to the following in section 7.7, which refers to non-pregnant adults:

“When consent is refused if an adult with capacity to make an informed decision makes a voluntary and appropriately informed decision to refuse treatment or service, this decision must be respected, even where the service user’s decision may result in his or her death. In such cases it is particularly important to accurately document the discussions with the service user, including the procedure that has been offered, the service user’s decision to decline and the fact that the implications of this decision have been fully outlined.”

This impacts directly on many aspects of maternity care in Ireland – antenatal, labour, and birth. It directly removes and overrides the woman’s right to consent for any procedure during labour and birth where that is deemed to endanger the life of the foetus. It eliminates the requirement for informed consent and is frequently used to coerce a mother into procedures without information or consultation, or consent needing to be sought, at times going so far as to threaten to obtain court orders to enforce her compliance and using other legislation such as child protection legislation to further enforce compliance. This restriction to consent was highlighted in the 2014 AIMS Ireland survey of 2,836 women, where less than half of all respondents said they were given the opportunity to refuse consent to tests, procedures and treatments.

Look, I'm sure most doctors, nurses and midwives are acting in good faith with their patients, but this is still frightening. This is quite a security blanket for bad doctors, nurses and midwives to have. Women are more than baby pods and should have just as many rights over their medical decisions while pregnant as they do when they aren't.

[gremlin45]

Oct 12, 2017 7:49:12 GMT -4 Carolina said:

Look, I'm sure most doctors, nurses and midwives are acting in good faith with their patients, but this is still frightening. This is quite a security blanket for bad doctors, nurses and midwives to have. Women are more than baby pods and should have just as many rights over their medical decisions while pregnant as they do when they aren't.

Agreed. I know people joke about "pregnancy brain" but no one's ever suggested that makes a pregnant woman incapable of making her own decisions.

[ladyboy]

Not to pile on Ireland, but I saw this article this morning and wanted to share it here:
A New Street Was Meant to Bridge Belfast’s Sectarian Divide. Then the Doorbell Rang.

[Deleted]

Go ahead pile it on, I'll add some myself

In my rant I mention waiting lists effecting children (everyone) article with some examples
Our current Taoiseach was former Minister of Health!

Also Homelessness escalating some statsHomeless figures from Focus Ireland

House prices increasing along with rents no lessons learned from the last boom and bust!!

Brexit looming may bring who knows what!

And of course the v important and nessecary Ref on the 8th amendment but who's knows the vitriol the lead up will bring or if no change what happens after.

So not bad mouth my own back yard too much ...the good (some of it), the Giants Causeway, Ring of Kerry, Cliffs of Mother, Skellig Michael Rock of Cashel etc are wonderful in the sunshine, our pubs, food and drink and the people great in all weathers and tourism is a life line! And one of our more popular sports is chasing each other with sticks after a small ball!