The Un-US Politics Discussion Scenario

[cremetangerine82]

I wish there was a two-state resolution approved in 1947, but that didn't happen. I assume a complicated geopolitical and religious issue can't be solve with a simple state dissolution. Wishing for peace isn't a hippie-dippy empty sentiment; it's something that's deeply believed. I don't understand why a humanitarian pause and/or ceasefire is impossible.

[Deleted]

Nov 4, 2023 8:01:55 GMT -4 Ridha said:

Well to quote an above passive aggressive statement of “I don’t know why I’m bothering but here goes”, I’ll be equally disingenuous and still weigh in.

As long as people are saying empty words for peace without acknowledging and rectifying the root cause of this issue, it’s the equivalent of saying “thoughts and prayers” (instead of just fixing the root cause of banning guns) at one of America’s high school massacres. You don’t like it when you hear people say that right? It’s become like an insult added to injury taunt, right? Well wishing for peace between home invaders and owners is the same.

This “conflict” is not 2 neighbours, Mr Stein and Mr Yusuf both of whom legally bought and moved in to their 2 separate houses on the same street, not being able to get on, which is what wishfully wishing for peace implies. That WOULD be a situation where peace is absolutely possible and they just need to both let their complaints go. This is how this conflict is often treated. As 2 neighbours. No.

This is Mr Yusuf living in his own house, and Mr Stein coming along (Mr Smith generously helped him pack), and kicking Mr Yusuf out at gunpoint in a home invasion. There are 2 people, 1 house. There’s no heartfelt sigh “wishing for peace” because it simply can’t happen; there is not enough land in that region to fit both populations/accommodate both the owners and the gaslighting home invaders who do mental gymnastics that for one period (NOT originally which was erroneously stated upthread, and which might make a small amount of difference - I would certainly for instance support Native Americans reclaiming their land from you, as they WERE the ORIGINALS) but at some *in between* point more than a thousand years ago.

The ONLY way for peace is to rectify the original wrong, not say “well the home invaders are here now, get used to it, where do you want them to go”, the third of which is the most gaslighting phrase of all in this.

Until that original wrong is rectified, and Israelis are relocated to a new land gifted by Mr Trump, there. Will. Be. No. Peace.

And if you want to kill time by just “wishing for peace” until Mr Stein kills Mr Yusuf, and think that will solve the 2 people 1 house issue then you can do that. That is essentially what’s happening. But at least just don’t gaslight by pretending Mr Stein has ANY claim to the land, or that Mr Trump had ANY right to ‘authorise’ Mr Stein to break in. Just own the fact that you’re complicit in a home invasion. Whether it was 70 years ago or 70 days ago Mr Stein is a squatter.

It’s one thing to not be able to do much about what your government is doing. It’s another to not even have moral clarity on the issue. And frankly that lack of clarity or “it’s complicated but I wish for peace” is exactly what the government is picking up on.

And once Mr Yusuf is dead, all who stood by and sighed for peace while saying “it’s complicated” “well where do you expect the home invader to go” and wished for peace between a home invader and the original owner might get lucky. Mr Yusuf’s friends and family might decide to get over it. They might just accept some renovations to their own houses to help jog their amnesia along. Or they might not.

Thoughts and prayers for all though.

I actually agreed with a lot of what you were saying until this post above what I can only assume was directed at my apparently passive aggressive post and empty words about wishing for peace which I since deleted


They weren’t my words but of those who experienced conflict in Northern Ireland and saw what can be achieved after a lot of hard work to try end it and only wish that for others a sentiment I echoed but that was a wrong in your view. I’m just posting on an internet board it’s not going to change anything in the grand scheme of things. If you see peace work in other regions as failure because the original wrong isn’t completely rectified not only do you have a very utopian view of the world it’s also very dismissive towards the hard won efforts of many good people who have achieved something close to peace in places
Some of us are ok (to mis use/quote WB Yeats) to be somewhere with a chance of something akin to “I shall have some peace there, for peace comes dropping slow”

I’ll repost the the 2 links that I’d posted last night and I’m done
Empty Words for peace from 2 men whose lived experience means nothing it seems.

[Ridha]

Nov 4, 2023 20:11:14 GMT -4 @fitz said:

Nov 4, 2023 8:01:55 GMT -4 Ridha said:

Well to quote an above passive aggressive statement of “I don’t know why I’m bothering but here goes”, I’ll be equally disingenuous and still weigh in.

As long as people are saying empty words for peace without acknowledging and rectifying the root cause of this issue, it’s the equivalent of saying “thoughts and prayers” (instead of just fixing the root cause of banning guns) at one of America’s high school massacres. You don’t like it when you hear people say that right? It’s become like an insult added to injury taunt, right? Well wishing for peace between home invaders and owners is the same.

This “conflict” is not 2 neighbours, Mr Stein and Mr Yusuf both of whom legally bought and moved in to their 2 separate houses on the same street, not being able to get on, which is what wishfully wishing for peace implies. That WOULD be a situation where peace is absolutely possible and they just need to both let their complaints go. This is how this conflict is often treated. As 2 neighbours. No.

This is Mr Yusuf living in his own house, and Mr Stein coming along (Mr Smith generously helped him pack), and kicking Mr Yusuf out at gunpoint in a home invasion. There are 2 people, 1 house. There’s no heartfelt sigh “wishing for peace” because it simply can’t happen; there is not enough land in that region to fit both populations/accommodate both the owners and the gaslighting home invaders who do mental gymnastics that for one period (NOT originally which was erroneously stated upthread, and which might make a small amount of difference - I would certainly for instance support Native Americans reclaiming their land from you, as they WERE the ORIGINALS) but at some *in between* point more than a thousand years ago.

The ONLY way for peace is to rectify the original wrong, not say “well the home invaders are here now, get used to it, where do you want them to go”, the third of which is the most gaslighting phrase of all in this.

Until that original wrong is rectified, and Israelis are relocated to a new land gifted by Mr Trump, there. Will. Be. No. Peace.

And if you want to kill time by just “wishing for peace” until Mr Stein kills Mr Yusuf, and think that will solve the 2 people 1 house issue then you can do that. That is essentially what’s happening. But at least just don’t gaslight by pretending Mr Stein has ANY claim to the land, or that Mr Trump had ANY right to ‘authorise’ Mr Stein to break in. Just own the fact that you’re complicit in a home invasion. Whether it was 70 years ago or 70 days ago Mr Stein is a squatter.

It’s one thing to not be able to do much about what your government is doing. It’s another to not even have moral clarity on the issue. And frankly that lack of clarity or “it’s complicated but I wish for peace” is exactly what the government is picking up on.

And once Mr Yusuf is dead, all who stood by and sighed for peace while saying “it’s complicated” “well where do you expect the home invader to go” and wished for peace between a home invader and the original owner might get lucky. Mr Yusuf’s friends and family might decide to get over it. They might just accept some renovations to their own houses to help jog their amnesia along. Or they might not.

Thoughts and prayers for all though.

I actually agreed with a lot of what you were saying until this post above what I can only assume was directed at my apparently passive aggressive post and empty words about wishing for peace which I since deleted


They weren’t my words but of those who experienced conflict in Northern Ireland and saw what can be achieved after a lot of hard work to try end it and only wish that for others a sentiment I echoed but that was a wrong in your view. I’m just posting on an internet board it’s not going to change anything in the grand scheme of things. If you see peace work in other regions as failure because the original wrong isn’t completely rectified not only do you have a very utopian view of the world it’s also very dismissive towards the hard won efforts of many good people who have achieved something close to peace in places
Some of us are ok (to mis use/quote WB Yeats) to be somewhere with a chance of something akin to “I shall have some peace there, for peace comes dropping slow”

I’ll repost the the 2 links that I’d posted last night and I’m done
Empty Words for peace from 2 men whose lived experience means nothing it seems.

No Fitz the passive aggressive comment of saying “not sure why I’m bothering but” was not directed at you (you didn’t say that, another poster did upthread, so why would that be directed at you?). The ineffectual wishing for peace was directed at the thread and West at large, and the fact that it’s a common saying that has become our “thoughts and prayers”.

You do bring up an interesting point though, and one I’ve seen brought up on Bill Maher (someone whose common sense I was a fan of until seeing his most recent monologues on this issue) whereby you said you agreed with me until you thought I had something directed at you. Now I hadn’t (I guess my comment was directly underneath and I didn’t feel like naming or quoting the poster who did say that), but even if I had, should that really make a difference to one’s views on the merits of the topic? Specifically on Bill Maher, he was laughing about the support given by “Queers for Palestine” on the basis that Arabs do not support queerness. But why should someone’s views on a completely different topic make a difference to whether it’s ok to murder and steal from them? Under Bill Maher’s logic if one was to see a mugging in progress one would try and catch the mugger for the victim and get the purse returned because mugging is wrong, but if somehow they were to recognise the victim as someone who (by virtue of his religion - which is meant to be free to have religious beliefs - was not in favour of rainbow trends), then suddenly they would not capture the mugger or get the purse back. Isn’t mugging an objective wrong, regardless of the views of the victim?

It could be that Bill Maher’s take accounts for most of the cognitive dissonance that the East sees in the West. Whereby it’s not about the objective wrongs of theft and murder, but because the mugger shares the same tastes and values as the bystanders who have the capacity to stop or at least condemn, and the victim has other views of topics unrelated to the objective wrong of mugging.

[lizziebeth730]

fitz I was hoping you would chime in. My family came over here from there because of that conflict.

I'm dippin out of this... if you need me I'll be spilling state secrets in front of my Alexa so that Mossad can pay off my mortgage/ sarcams

[phillipa]

I love reading conspiracy theories about American politicians and government workers, they're hilarious. The most exciting thing happening in most government employees lives is deciding what to have for dinner.

Foreigners seem to think we're all James Bond villains, or that real life is like House of Cards. Veep is a much closer representation.

[lizziebeth730]

Nov 5, 2023 7:57:50 GMT -4 phillipa said:

I love reading conspiracy theories about American politicians and government workers, they're hilarious. The most exciting thing happening in most government employees lives is deciding what to have for dinner.

Foreigners seem to think we're all James Bond villains, or that real life is like House of Cards. Veep is a much closer representation.

Word... as a government employee I'm mostly over here going "I need to order 1 purewick catheter" and then contemplating ordering one for myself... take that spy agencies! I'm in my car so much for work I'd love nothing more than to be able to pee myself!

[mrspickles]

Nov 5, 2023 8:17:22 GMT -4 lizziebeth730 said:

Nov 5, 2023 7:57:50 GMT -4 phillipa said:

I love reading conspiracy theories about American politicians and government workers, they're hilarious. The most exciting thing happening in most government employees lives is deciding what to have for dinner.

Foreigners seem to think we're all James Bond villains, or that real life is like House of Cards. Veep is a much closer representation.

Word... as a government employee I'm mostly over here going "I need to order 1 purewick catheter" and then contemplating ordering one for myself... take that spy agencies! I'm in my car so much for work I'd love nothing more than to be able to pee myself!

Side note: I had one of those during part of my last hospitalization and I was a big fan.

[Sunnyhorse]

Nov 5, 2023 8:17:22 GMT -4 lizziebeth730 said:

Nov 5, 2023 7:57:50 GMT -4 phillipa said:

I love reading conspiracy theories about American politicians and government workers, they're hilarious. The most exciting thing happening in most government employees lives is deciding what to have for dinner.

Foreigners seem to think we're all James Bond villains, or that real life is like House of Cards. Veep is a much closer representation.

Word... as a government employee I'm mostly over here going "I need to order 1 purewick catheter" and then contemplating ordering one for myself... take that spy agencies! I'm in my car so much for work I'd love nothing more than to be able to pee myself!

I don’t like thinking about where the suction empties on the automotive model.

[lizziebeth730]

Nov 5, 2023 12:15:10 GMT -4 Sunnyhorse said:

Nov 5, 2023 8:17:22 GMT -4 lizziebeth730 said:

Word... as a government employee I'm mostly over here going "I need to order 1 purewick catheter" and then contemplating ordering one for myself... take that spy agencies! I'm in my car so much for work I'd love nothing more than to be able to pee myself!

I don’t like thinking about where the suction empties on the automotive model.

Radiator coolant OBVI!

Although I have an electric car so? AC condenser?

[ratscabies]

Battery temp management….