J.K. Rowling

[Wol]

As we've seen in American politics, civility is dead. Of course a percentage of the vitriol thrown at her is repugnant. But it's on her to protect her brand and it's naive to think that making unpopular public statements isn't going to bring backlash, and that some of that will be offensive and dangerous. And there's a lot of ego at work for her to think that people care about her opinion on trans rights. If that's what she believes that's her prerogative. But if Stephen King decided to pen an essay about how trans women aren't women he'd get backlash. Free speech is and always has been a slippery slope. You can't claim you have the right to say whatever you want and then get upset because other people exercise their right to do it as well. Yes, there's a distinction between free speech and legally defined hate speech, and if she's received real threats that's on law enforcement. But to clutch your pearls when you learn people might hate you for your opinions is pretty entitled. Respectfully and IMHO, as always.

[petitesuite]

I definitely agree that death threats and rape threats (auuuughhhhh) are completely reprehensible. In the specific movement that I think Wol is referencing, I believe a lot of the people criticizing "cancel culture" (to the extent that it even exists...) incorrectly conflate "one person was mean to another person on the Internet" with "one person was mean to another person on the internet and this somehow rendered the second person unable to ever voice an opinion in public/cut off their employment/created some other real-life difficult consequence." Like, I'm sure plenty of people DID tweet "canceled" at JKR or rudely told her to stop talking but she still has a massive platform for any opinion she wishes to voice and more money than god so...we should all be so canceled.

I actually suspect the correct remedy for death/rape threats is for someone like JKR (boatload of money, large platform, legitimate grievance) to sue Twitter itself for failing to enforce its terms of service, maybe? That's just a guess, though. (Or, you know, Twitter could just fucking do something about it but we could all grow old waiting for that to happen.)

[Mutagen]

Wow, I'm sorry, but I can't disagree more strongly. We cannot have it both ways. If saying "women menstruate" is harmful to trans people, then we must also take seriously the harm done when JKR is met with dick pics, rape threats, or her former abuser being given a public platform to say he's not sorry for slapping her. Either language is harmful or it isn't.

Again, I do not agree with what she said and I think she is purposely poking the bear at this point. But she doesn't have to be a perfect victim for us to condemn the misogynistic attacks on her.

[Ginger]

The letter being signed by a few celebrities in support of Rowling is specifically about Twitter's failure to do anything about the threats being directed at her on their platform. For example, Twitter is allowing the hashtag "#RIPJKRowling" which certainly crosses a line IMO.

I don't see what's so egregious about people speaking out against that sort of thing, or showing support for Rowling as a person. Aren't they using their free speech as well?

Eddie Redmayne gave an unequivocal statement a while ago that he believes Rowling's opinions are wrong, that he supports trans and non-binary people and their right to live their lives in peace without being questioned. And he also said a couple of days ago that he is alarmed by what's being directed at Rowling on social media. And now according to the internet, Redmayne is trash, cancelled, good riddance, etc, because he switched sides.

There seems to be an abiding belief that disagreeing with her opinions comes with a moral obligation to hate her as a person, express that hatred at every opportunity, and express hatred for anyone who doesn't sign on to hating her as well.

[Wol]

There was an #RIPEllen hashtag when the news broke about her show being a toxic work environment. It's unfortunate but that's the hashtag cancel culture has adopted. I don't recall celebrities calling out Twitter to address the hashtag when it was directed at Ellen, but I could be wrong.

Unfortunately the legal system in the US does allow for harmful language. There are legal definitions for libel and for threats (the "Fire! in crowded theater" argument). This all brings up the responsibility of social media to police hate speech, and honestly I don't know where I stand about their role. The ugly threats being made against JK Rowling are awful and the US legal system is reactive, not proactive (cannot speak to the UK). I was kind of on the fence when people were taking Facebook to task about not policing disinformation campaigns (political, anti-vax). I kind of think that's a slippery slope to censorship. I think the principle of free speech puts the onus on the individual to have the wherewithal to make up their own mind about fact and falsehoods, and the last four years has made it depressingly evident that the US has a large percentage of stupid people. Facebook and Twitter aren't the only sources for online lies, but they're the biggest so I get it. This also brings up enforcement of social media company standards. Twitter has been very haphazard about the application of their standards. They've tried with Trump but they've also let a lot slide.

I think Ginger's point about Eddie Redmayne is the sad truth. He said the right thing and got slammed. You really can't win.

And I do judge JK Rowling for her opinions. Doesn't your belief system define you?

[Ginger]

Mar 7, 2005 16:56:02 GMT -4 Wol said:

There was an #RIPEllen hashtag when the news broke about her show being a toxic work environment. It's unfortunate but that's the hashtag cancel culture has adopted. I don't recall celebrities calling out Twitter to address the hashtag when it was directed at Ellen, but I could be wrong.

#RIPEllen trended because of a false rumor on social media that Ellen had actually died. And then when it was confirmed she hadn't died, the hashtag trended for a while satirically.

"#[Celebrityname]isoverparty" is the hashtag generally used for cancellations and that's fine as it does not imply the wish for harm or death on the celebrity.

I don't expect Ian McKellen and John Cleese to monitor the internet looking for social media mistreatment of random celebrities. Rowling is their friend and that's why it's on their radar.

[lea1977]

Sometimes I wonder if times were better before social media. Does that planet really need it?

[lordofthefries]

There were also movements to pretend Harry Potter has no author, and plenty of statements from others involved with Harry Potter that they'd like to move forward with further Potterverse projects without JKR. I've never seen a canceled male creative treated this way. Sure, you can boycott someone's work and not provide them with a further platform if you disagree with them. But to essentially advocate that we're just going to collectively steal someone's intellectual property cause you don't like them?

[suekel]

Oct 1, 2020 13:38:49 GMT -4 lea1977 said:

Sometimes I wonder if times were better before social media. Does that planet really need it?

I have said this many many times, especially in the past 4 years. And I am a fairly heavy user of social media. The internet in general has been such a tool for good and for bad at the same time. I am SO thankful I grew up in the time before all this existed. The barrage of potentially harmful or warping stuff kids get hit with is crazy. Easy access to porn that is leading to teen boys thinking all girls want to be choked.* Bullying that has led kids to kill themselves. Obsession with "likes" and the never ending striving to look like the cool people on IG or Tik Tok. It's all just so much.

*This is a real thing that I read about recently. It was pretty disturbing.

[lea1977]

I am a bit disappointed in Daniel Radcliffe, he literally owes everything to her.