Star Trek: The Franchise

[newmanium]

So I finally saw the flick, and what I came away with was: Kirk's communicator used to look so cool, and now I'm thinking, "Dude, it's not 2003. Ditch the flip phone and upgrade to an Android."

[Mutagen]

Simon Pegg on negative Trekkie reaction to Star Trek Into Darkness (which was voted the worst Trek film of all time at a recent convention):

"I think it's like when you tire of an indie band that you love because, suddenly, they get a number one single," Pegg opined. "You don't necessarily start disliking their music, but you stop liking them because you're pissed off that they're famous."

Eeurrgh, I seriously almost put this in the Dumb Quotes thread. Now, I don't think Into Darkness was the worst Trek film by a longshot.  I had problems with it, but unlike certain other films in the franchise, I can't deny it entertained me.  But this is barely a step up from a "Y'all jus jellus!" defense, condescendingly directed at the fanbase that a) put money in his pocket, b) kept the franchise alive at all, c) had been eagerly anticipating this movie for four years. Speaking of which, it's also stupid because the 2009 reboot movie was generally well received by the core fanbase while also having mainstream appeal.

But what bothers me the most is that it either deliberately or ignorantly elides a major problem that turned off a lot of longtime Trek fans, which is the whitewashing of a classic character, as well as the treatment of female characters.  Agree with those criticisms or not, dismissing them as "hipster snobs" is not only dumb, it's offensive.

[bklynred]

I totally enjoyed the movie but I agree, there were specific problems: whitewashing and women in their underwear being the most blatant. I'm surprised that came from Pegg, I thought he was more aware than that.

[pathtaken]

Aug 21, 2013 21:02:53 GMT -4 bklynred said:

I totally enjoyed the movie but I agree, there were specific problems: whitewashing and women in their underwear being the most blatant. I'm surprised that came from Pegg, I thought he was more aware than that.

He hasn't been the same since working with Tom Cruise.

[missjennifer]

As far as "whitewashing" goes...

I choose to believe that Section 31 gave "John Harrison" some plastic surgery to make his cover identity more convincing, and to keep him from attracting attention. Which is the last thing you want to do if you've got someone in deep cover. Even if someone gave him a second look thinking, "wow, he really looks like the pictures of that dictator from the Eugenics Wars"...a second look is not what you want people giving him. And consider...there's someone walking around in this timeline who's actually MET the old Khan...which gives them all the more reason to want to make him as inconspicuous as possible.

Anyway, that's my headcanon and I'm sticking to it.

And as far as that vote at the convention....worse than V? And Insurrection? Really, guys? All I can think of is this Onion News Network video that was posted in 2009, after the first film.

I LIKED Into Darkness. It had its flaws, but overall I think it was a good balance of action and character development, with nearly everyone in the ensemble given a chance to shine. The bashers complain that Abrams' Trek films "turn it into an action movie", but I think that his films are a good balance between action scenes and well-told stories--and above all, the interaction between the characters.

[bklynred]

I really liked Into Darkness as well, and reading Pegg's quote in context, I'd say he's still on point. Any movie after Wrath of Khan is easily worse than...well, lots of movies. Fans just get riled up when things are changed in canon.

[alpierce]

Well, Abrams is going to get his lifelong dream of directing Star Wars, so all the Star Wars fans will be able to complain next about changing canon.

I fervently hope for a gay Darth Vader. Just for the voice, and the stereotypical lisp.

[Mutagen]

Aug 28, 2013 17:23:32 GMT -4 bklynred said:

I really liked Into Darkness as well, and reading Pegg's quote in context, I'd say he's still on point. Any movie after Wrath of Khan is easily worse than...well, lots of movies. Fans just get riled up when things are changed in canon.

I am actually going to commit Trekkie heresy and say that I actually think Wrath of Khan is slightly overrated. Spock's death is very moving and Montalban's performance rocks, but in terms of overall plot??  I'd actually put Star Trek VI on the same level and say that First Contact is the one I can truly watch over and over.

But having said that, I think it's a little crappy of Pegg to act like it's just nerd rage at work, when progressive casting (as much as they could do in the 60s) was a core value of Roddenberry's verse.  It's not, oh the communicators look different or they changed somebody's hairstyle.  It's altering something pretty fundamental to the ethos of the show.  I actually felt the 2009 movie did a better job of updating that, as Sulu and Uhura had real plot-critical roles (beyond "aye Captain") which they often didn't in the original series.  That's why the regression of ID was such a disappointment, although I do appreciate that Uhura kicked ass all over the place.

And I don't know if it's just the corner of fandom I was in, but I felt the 2009 movie was generally positively received by Trek fans.  I'm sure there was some dissent as there always is, but a lot of longterm fans really liked it.  So I think the "fans just can't handle anything new" argument falls flat. I mean Abrams blew up Vulcan in that movie and fandom mostly lived with it, so I don't think it's fair for Pegg to be so dismissive of the fanbase's ability to handle newness or popularity.  Are fans allowed to be disappointed after a four-year wait without getting shat on??  

Having said all this, I had a lot of fun watching and there were several aspects/moments I enjoyed about Into Darkness.  I'm not a complete hater   I still think Pegg's comments are kind of whiny and dumb.  Yeah, it probably stings that STID got named the worst Trek movie, but if Shatner can live with the endless hate and fat/toupee jokes for Final Frontier and the Next Generation cast can be respectful of the fandom after the reaction to Nemesis, Pegg can too.

[angelaudie]

Aug 29, 2013 7:57:05 GMT -4 Mutagen said:

Aug 28, 2013 17:23:32 GMT -4 bklynred said:

I really liked Into Darkness as well, and reading Pegg's quote in context, I'd say he's still on point. Any movie after Wrath of Khan is easily worse than...well, lots of movies. Fans just get riled up when things are changed in canon.

I am actually going to commit Trekkie heresy and say that I actually think Wrath of Khan is slightly overrated. Spock's death is very moving and Montalban's performance rocks, but in terms of overall plot??  I'd actually put Star Trek VI on the same level and say that First Contact is the one I can truly watch over and over.

But having said that, I think it's a little crappy of Pegg to act like it's just nerd rage at work, when progressive casting (as much as they could do in the 60s) was a core value of Roddenberry's verse.  It's not, oh the communicators look different or they changed somebody's hairstyle.  It's altering something pretty fundamental to the ethos of the show.  I actually felt the 2009 movie did a better job of updating that, as Sulu and Uhura had real plot-critical roles (beyond "aye Captain") which they often didn't in the original series.  That's why the regression of ID was such a disappointment, although I do appreciate that Uhura kicked ass all over the place.

And I don't know if it's just the corner of fandom I was in, but I felt the 2009 movie was generally positively received by Trek fans.  I'm sure there was some dissent as there always is, but a lot of longterm fans really liked it.  So I think the "fans just can't handle anything new" argument falls flat. I mean Abrams blew up Vulcan in that movie and fandom mostly lived with it, so I don't think it's fair for Pegg to be so dismissive of the fanbase's ability to handle newness or popularity.  Are fans allowed to be disappointed after a four-year wait without getting shat on??  

Having said all this, I had a lot of fun watching and there were several aspects/moments I enjoyed about Into Darkness.  I'm not a complete hater   I still think Pegg's comments are kind of whiny and dumb.  Yeah, it probably stings that STID got named the worst Trek movie, but if Shatner can live with the endless hate and fat/toupee jokes for Final Frontier and the Next Generation cast can be respectful of the fandom after the reaction to Nemesis, Pegg can too.

I've never gotten the WoK love either. It's a good movie but yeah it's a bit overrated.

In a perfect world, people up in arms over Into Darkness due to whitewashing (BC did an excellent job but it really wasn't necessary to make him Khan) and the unnecessary underwear shot of DeMarcus. But we don't live in a perfect world and from what I've seen most people are pissed that Into Darkness was so... mainstream. I've seem some comments about the whitewashing and less than stellar for the women characters but most comments I've seen are along the lines of, "OMG! ABRAMS HAS MADE STAR TREK INTO STAR WARS! NOOOOOO!!!! HOW DARE HE WANT NONTREK FANS TO ENJOY THE MOVIE! HE SUCKS!" The issues with making Khan into a white dude and undies shots are generally just tacked on at the end. I'm not saying there aren't Star Trek fans upset about those issues. There certainly are. But nerd culture, even among Star Trek fans, is notoriously racist and sexist.

While the 2009 version was well-received there were plenty of the hardcore fans that hated it. Or claim they do. For a group of people who claim to hate the movie the so much they sure do watch it a lot. Kinda like Pride and Prejudice fans who hate on Joe Wright's version but yet seem to watch it every two months.

I do think Pegg is simplifying things a bit but at the same time he does have a point.

ETA: I've noticed several of the Into Darkness's cast have stated they hope the next movie has an original villain. Makes me wonder if perhaps they were also uncomfortable with making Khan white but at the same time didn't want to bash their bosses.

[Mutagen]

Aug 29, 2013 14:56:49 GMT -4 angelaudie said:

I'm not saying there aren't Star Trek fans upset about those issues. There certainly are. But nerd culture, even among Star Trek fans, is notoriously racist and sexist.

Unfortunately, I have no disagreement there. Sorry if I didn't parse it out better - I definitely think some fans were pissed for the nerdragey reasons you mentioned, but I still think it's unfair to throw out all criticism as belonging to that category.  Or to use that to deflect from the things that actually deserve to be criticized.