The Etiquette Thread

[Benni]

Here is a wacky etiquette dilemma from a cookie exchange party I gave Saturday evening. Every year we do this in the community I live in and we take turns hosting this and all the women in the community are invited. So there were 24 women aged between 20 - 60 years. We have appetizers, a Chinese gift exchange, visit and usually go home around 11:00 pm with our baking. I invited a girl(Tiffany) who had moved into the community a few years ago. She had married this kind of strange man and has had 2 children by him. She is very pretty and he is definitely not and we have all wondered how they met and what a strange couple they make. Anyways we are all visiting and she starts telling us all about her Barbie collection. HER BARBIE'S. One of the women says don't you mean your daughter's Barbie's. She says "Oh no mine" She would not stop talking about her Barbie's. Everyone kept trying to change the subject and she would just not stop. I am like OK lets do the gift exchange she would not stop. She continues on all about her Barbie Camper with the Shower, her Barbie camping supplies, all their fur coats she has EVERYTHING.I kept trying to change the subject and so did everyone else and she just kept talking LOUDER! And then she tells us how her hubby and her play Barbie's together after the kids go to bed!!! It was like dead silence everyone is staring at her and me and she just would not shut the hell up. Finally this really loud obnoxious women goes "YOU ARE SO WEIRD" Tiffany goes "OH and I haven't even told you about my Cher Barbie yet."
By this time 3 girls are having uncontrollable laughter attacks and I am extremely stressed out not knowing what to do. So I just totally ignored her and started the gift exchange. And then I couldn't get her to leave. Oh my god. HOW DO YOU KEEP A PERSON FROM TAKING OVER AN ENTIRE EVENT. (I am actually laughing at whoever is hosting next year's Baking exchange) My neck ached all day yesterday from the stress.

[Daisy Pusher]

Oh dear. Must she be invited next year?

Failing that, she sounds like good comedy relief. "Grown women and their Barbies, on the next Geraldo!"

[zivvie]

Wow - she sounds like that guy that Stanford on Sex and the City met who had a freak-*ss doll collection that he kept on his bed. Yech.

Well...I think it's an etiquette faux-pas to point out to someone that they're committing an etiquette faux-pas. By trying to shift the conversation and deflect attention from this FREAK OF NATURE, I think you did as best you could. No one should try to dominate the conversation at such a get-together, because then the get-together turns into a celebration of someon's obsession. On the other hand, someone could have mentioned to the FREAK OF NATURE that they had a Barbie S&M chamber where they liked to decapitate and dismember all manner of Barbies, Kens, etc., and see how she reacted.

[sleepy]

Is she, perhaps...erm....challenged?

Because then I could cut her some slack. But I did laugh my ass off at that blunt person who busted out the "YOU ARE SO WEIRD."

Well, if you can't tactfully not invite her, I'll second the motion for using her as comic relief. Good luck.

P.S. What's a Chinese gift exchange?

Edited: After having read your description of the gift exchange, whoo-ee, man, that sounds like a recipe for disaster in the right crowd!

[Benni]

No, I don't think she is Challenged. I think she just loves Barbies and has never had a chance to speak before because her Challenged husband never lets her.
Perhaps they met at a Barbie Lover's Convention.

Chinese gift exchange - I don't know why it is called this. But we do this with my husband's family and at the 4-H Christmas Party.

For the Baking one, You bring a present valued at $15.00 or less wrapped and put it under the tree.
Everybody draws a number and #1 picks a present and opens it. #2 has the option of taking a present from under the tree or stealing #1's present. If #1's present is stolen then that person has to open a new present. #3 has the option of stealing #1 or #2's or opening a new present. The further along your number is the better your chance is of picking yourself a great present.

Different groups play by different rules. This group plays that a present can only be stolen 3 times.

I was really mad because I had a really nice Cowboy Santa and somebody stole it from me and I ended up with Chocolates. One time at my in-laws one of my brother-in-laws had such a fit over his present being stolen by one of the kids he left. It is sometimes just too funny.

[ladymadonna]

We used to do that kind of gift exchange at the restaurant I used to bartend at. Of course, our goal was to buy the tackiest, yuckiest, grossest, most cringe inducing gift we could find. One year I brought the Dancing Baby from Ally McBeal, which was truly hideous, and everyone wanted it!

Anyway, I have a more serious etiquette situation. I am a Unitarian Universalist, which basically means I have my own beliefs (bordering on pagan); I don't really agree with any accepted religious doctrine out there. So, a lot of the ladies in my office are devout Christians, and around this time of year they really start circulating the "reason for the season" crap. Which is supposedly silly, because a lot of churches have conceded that Jesus was more than likely born in spring (lambs and all of that). What set me off today was a Letter from Jesus to all of us, that was passed around and you had to initial it before passing it on, so everyone knew you read it. It was all about how people have Xmas parties and drink and "worship" Santa Claus and have no room for Jesus in their lives. The creepy part was the end where it said: " I'm having my own party, and only those who truly love and accept me are invited. If you're not invited, then good luck burning in Hell. Love ya, Jesus" Or some such crap. One co-worker, whom I respect so much, handed it to me while saying it was the most beautiful thing she'd ever read.

I was highly offended. These people know that I am not a Christian, that I have very different beliefs, and that my family is all about presents and Santa and Solstice, etc. And yet I have to read this, and smile, and initial it and pass it on. After I read it, I told my boss what my family believes, and she said, and I quote: "Don't worry. It's not THAT hot in Hell." I know she was joking, but I was really hurt and offended; because I thought she was my friend. My very best friend is Jewish and he completely accepts my spirituality, even though it comes into direct conflict with what he believes sometimes.

I should add that I work for a domestic violence agency and everyone I work with is VERY tolerant and even keeled. I just don't know if it would be right for me to bring up my distaste for this Religious Christmas stuff, or if I should just let it go.

It's not that I am disparaging anyone's beliefs, I just feel overwhelmed and a wee bit attacked for apparently being the only non-Christian in my entire town. It's not like I circulate office e-mails about MY beliefs.

Anyway, I'm just venting. Thanks.

[sleepy]

Wow, LadyMadonna, that kind of shit is really offensive to me. I'm sorry you have to deal with that and aren't getting support from your boss. When will people understand that belongs in your private life and the workplace is NOT the freaking place for proselytizing? I think it is rude, offensive, presumptious, and bad etiquette to the highest degree.


P.S. We went to UU for awhile as kids.

[anne]

That really does suck ladymadonna. Out of curiosity, is the agency you work for in anyway a faith based agency? I ask because I know that some domestic violence agencies are. I could understand that sort of thing happening in a faith-based office. In that case, while there is not necessarily a requirement that all employees subscribe to the same beliefs, there is an obvious basis in a given belief system which is going to be present in the workplace. But if it is not a faith-based agency and it's just the majority of the employees which have established such an environment, then I really call into question the managers who would allow that to happen at the expense of the morale of those who disagree.

From an etiquette standpoint, I'd say that it's appropriate for you to share your beliefs when you feel comfortable doing so. But I can't say that i think it would make sense to REALLY take a stand - to tell people in dramatic fashion how disgusted you are, etc. Rather, I think it'd be better to just glance over things when they're circulated, and if you determine that its proselytizing in ways you disagree with, skip reading it carefully and pass it on. It doesn't mean that what they are doing is right - but all that you can control is ensuring that YOU are doing what is right. If you were to speak out louder, or refuse to even pass along such "letters", what are you going to accomplish? Their behavior will not change as a result, so it'd only create hard feelings with everyone.

All that being said, should you ever get into a discussion with one of these people about your views over the letters and e-mails, be sure to ask them just how they think God feels about them speaking for Him. It's always baffled me that people who consider themselves true followers of God can be arrogant enough to believe they can declare who is and isn't getting into heaven. Last time I read any scripture on the subject, I think it was pretty firm in saying that God decides that. I'm personally humble enough to trust that if he needs my help in deciding, he'll let me know.

[pepper67]

The creepy part was the end where it said: " I'm having my own party, and only those who truly love and accept me are invited. If you're not invited, then good luck burning in Hell. Love ya, Jesus" Or some such crap.

That is incredibly offensive. I don't give a damn what religion someone is but that is beyond the pale. They'd have a fit if the situation were reversed and they were handed a leaflet that basically said, "Hey, you don't believe what I believe - burn in Hell, sucka!"

::hugs ladymadonna:: Have they been like this before? Or has their religious fervour increased for some reason? Either way, I don't think you should have to put up and shut up. It's offensive to force your religion on someone else - regardless of what your religion is.

My uncle is a Born Again Christian, and he's heavily into it. He knows that I'm a Spiritualist and that my mother reads Tarot cards (so do I, but as he hasn't commented on it, so I'm not sure he knows that I do too - I don't care either way). Anyway, just before my mother's birthday, he came to see her to give her a birthday card. His conversation can be summed up with:

"Happy birthday. You're doomed. Would you like to say a prayer with me?"

A friend of mine suggested that next year, if he does it again, my mother should pray, loudly, "Dear God, please make Alan go away. Amen."

[dwanollah]

I'm a Christian -- or, shall I say, I hold Christian beliefs... it wigs me out to even associate by name with what could delicately be termed "Jesus Freaks" -- and I find few things more offensive than religion in the workplace (or school). It's completely inappropriate. Period.

Do you have a supervisor or someone you can file a complaint with? That kind of shit has been the basis for lawsuits, and one would think that the potential for something like that would be enough to put an end to the religious emails.