Tennis

[Martini Girl]

I felt bad for Osaka, but I do think the umpire owed Serena an apology.

[Ginger]

Sept 8, 2018 18:19:24 GMT -4 @fitz said:

I didn't see the match(no sport channel) but reading it seems the poor girl apologised for winning and Serena asked for the Booing to stop and acknowledge Naomi's first Grand Slam win.
What went down? I'm also reading the Umpire penalised Serena which cost a game?

Congrats to Naomi she should be enjoying this win not feeling bad over it.

She was penalized three times:
1. First offense (warning) - receiving coaching during the match
2. Second offense (docked one point) - breaking her racket
3. Third offense (docked a game) - for verbally abusing the umpire (yelling at him and calling him a thief for docking her a point)

Technically, she committed all three offenses, but #1 and #3 were both pretty bullshit calls. As Serena's coach pointed out, this umpire routinely presides over matches involving the most notorious coaching offender in tennis, Nadal's Uncle Tony, and *never* enforces the coaching rule. It's fairly common for umpires to tell the player to ask their coach to tone it down rather than issue a violation.

And although she did have a heated exchange with the umpire, I've definitely seen male players get away with a comparable level of arguing. And I've also seen them not get away with it, but to dock her an entire game at a fairly crucial point in the second set was a bad use of the umpire's discretion.

Poor Osaka looked so miserable. She won her first grand slam and the whole stadium was booing. What a nightmare! Serena did her best to cheer her up and gave a very gracious speech in which she implored the crowd to stop the booing, and fortunately Osaka was eventually able to stop crying and smile.

[Martini Girl]

Sept 8, 2018 22:29:20 GMT -4 Ginger said:

Sept 8, 2018 18:19:24 GMT -4 @fitz said:

I didn't see the match(no sport channel) but reading it seems the poor girl apologised for winning and Serena asked for the Booing to stop and acknowledge Naomi's first Grand Slam win.
What went down? I'm also reading the Umpire penalised Serena which cost a game?

Congrats to Naomi she should be enjoying this win not feeling bad over it.

She was penalized three times:
1. First offense (warning) - receiving coaching during the match
2. Second offense (docked one point) - breaking her racket
3. Third offense (docked a game) - for verbally abusing the umpire (yelling at him and calling him a thief for docking her a point)

Technically, she committed all three offenses, but #1 and #3 were both pretty bullshit calls. As Serena's coach pointed out, this umpire routinely presides over matches involving the most notorious coaching offender in tennis, Nadal's Uncle Tony, and *never* enforces the coaching rule. It's fairly common for umpires to tell the player to ask their coach to tone it down rather than issue a violation.

And although she did have a heated exchange with the umpire, I've definitely seen male players get away with a comparable level of arguing. And I've also seen them not get away with it, but to dock her an entire game at a fairly crucial point in the second set was a bad use of the umpire's discretion.

Poor Osaka looked so miserable. She won her first grand slam and the whole stadium was booing. What a nightmare! Serena did her best to cheer her up and gave a very gracious speech in which she implored the crowd to stop the booing, and fortunately Osaka was eventually able to stop crying and smile.

Well said. I feel like at the US Open half the champions get booed if the favored player doesn't win, but I can't remember it ever being that bad. Billie Jean King made some good points on Twitter. It will be interesting if Ramos issues an apology or receives any kind of wrist slap.

[Ginger]

The USTA has issued two statements, one outlining why all of Ramos's calls were in accordance with the rules, and a second in which they gushed over Serena's sportsmanship for her speech after the match.

Serena told Ramos as she walked off the court that he will never officiate at one of her matches again. I didn't realize players have the power to do that, but apparently they do!

I'm really interested in somebody examining Ramos's stats. There is definitely a general inconsistency in the enforcement of certain rules, but I'm curious as to whether Ramos can at least point to a history of being a hanging judge or whether he lets other players slide on the same things.

It's complicated because Serena is not 100% in the right here. Her coach *was* making a weird hand gesture that wasn't the typical fist-pumping-and-yelling type coaching that usually happens in the stands. I believe Serena completely that they did not have any pre-arranged hand signals, but it's not really the umpire's fault that her coach is weird and gave that appearance.

And she did meet the criteria for verbal abuse:

"For the purposes of this Rule, verbal abuse is defined as a statement about an official, opponent, sponsor, spectator or other person that implies dishonesty or is derogatory, insulting or otherwise abusive."

She called him a liar and a thief. Did he need to issue a violation for it? No. But it's not outrageous that he did.

I have seen even the most hot-headed players get their tempers in check after getting a second violation because they know the consequence of getting a third violation is big. Serena didn't do that. I fully understand why she was upset. I think she got into that space where you are so mad you stop caring about anything else. And the umpire didn't necessarily owe her an apology, but a few conciliatory words and an assurance that the original call was not meant to question her integrity might have helped the situation. I have seen umpires be a lot nicer.

[Matilda]

She's unbearable. Is "I have a daughter" the new "I'm an American citizen, standing on American ground"?

[carrier76]

Sept 9, 2018 6:18:10 GMT -4 Matilda said:

She's unbearable. Is "I have a daughter" the new "I'm an American citizen, standing on American ground"?

I do feel like her constantly going back to “I have a daughter!” “This is for the mothers!” “Because i’m A mother” is getting old. I don’t know. I have a son. I’m not the first or last.

[laurenj]

Sept 9, 2018 0:33:22 GMT -4 Ginger said:

I'm really interested in somebody examining Ramos's stats. There is definitely a general inconsistency in the enforcement of certain rules, but I'm curious as to whether Ramos can at least point to a history of being a hanging judge or whether he lets other players slide on the same things.

It's complicated because Serena is not 100% in the right here. Her coach *was* making a weird hand gesture that wasn't the typical fist-pumping-and-yelling type coaching that usually happens in the stands. I believe Serena completely that they did not have any pre-arranged hand signals, but it's not really the umpire's fault that her coach is weird and gave that appearance.

And she did meet the criteria for verbal abuse:

"For the purposes of this Rule, verbal abuse is defined as a statement about an official, opponent, sponsor, spectator or other person that implies dishonesty or is derogatory, insulting or otherwise abusive."

She called him a liar and a thief. Did he need to issue a violation for it? No. But it's not outrageous that he did.

I have seen even the most hot-headed players get their tempers in check after getting a second violation because they know the consequence of getting a third violation is big. Serena didn't do that. I fully understand why she was upset. I think she got into that space where you are so mad you stop caring about anything else. And the umpire didn't necessarily owe her an apology, but a few conciliatory words and an assurance that the original call was not meant to question her integrity might have helped the situation. I have seen umpires be a lot nicer.

Her coach was 100% coaching, he flat out told Pam Shriver that he was. His defense was that everyone does it and that Osaka’s coach was doing the same.

As anyone who’s ever been pulled over out of a line of traffic that’s ALL going 70 in a 50 MPH zone can attest, “everyone else is doing it too” will never be the right answer to get you out of trouble.

The umpire’s belief that coaching was happening was correct, the racket abuse violation was expected (though that’s a rule I’d like to see gone, who cares if they smash a racket? Half the time, they play much better after getting that frustration out.), and she was continuing to go at him at every changeover, so the verbal abuse thing wasn’t exactly out of left field.

But I still feel like such rigidity and the game penalty were too much for the setting and the closeness of the match. In tennis, there is room for judgment calls and I think that was the wrong one.

And while he didn’t necessarily owe her an apology, he could have conveyed a tone and message that would have helped smooth the situation. It’s really not her fault if her coach decides to try to send a message to her (although as Chris Evert noted at the time, he was telling her to get to the net, which she did start doing and winning points, so it does seem like she got the message), and he could have stressed that more.

I totally agree that Serena reached a point of anger where she couldn’t think of anything else, I think it was catching up to her when she talked to the officials and definitely set in after the match ended and Osaka was sitting and crying in her chair, I think she realized this was going to be a huge controversy and taint the win of a first-time winner who in all honesty would likely have beaten her even without the point/game penalty and I do think she felt bad about that.

[mandasant]

Sept 9, 2018 10:46:20 GMT -4 carrier76 said:

Sept 9, 2018 6:18:10 GMT -4 Matilda said:

She's unbearable. Is "I have a daughter" the new "I'm an American citizen, standing on American ground"?

I do feel like her constantly going back to “I have a daughter!” “This is for the mothers!” “Because i’m A mother” is getting old. I don’t know. I have a son. I’m not the first or last.

Couldn't agree more. I don't have any kids. I guess I don't count at all.

I love Serena, but she handled this terribly. The only one owed an apology is Osaka. Her win is forever tainted now, not by the umpire's calls, but by Serena's reaction to them. I get that Serena was trying to make a point about double standards, but that point was lost in all the histrionics. This could have all gone very differently. I'm disappointed for Osaka.

[Ginger]

Aug 19, 2008 9:02:06 GMT -4 laurenj said:

But I still feel like such rigidity and the game penalty were too much for the setting and the closeness of the match. In tennis, there is room for judgment calls and I think that was the wrong one.

Exactly. A couple of "soft warnings" (stop it or you will get a violation) were in order for both the coaching and the verbal abuse, particularly once it got to the point that an entire game was at stake.

I agree completely with everything you said, except for the part about the coaching not being her fault. The coach is her employee and she's responsible for what he does. I'm sure he's in a heap of trouble with her today, especially for admitting that he did it to Pam Shriver! That left Serena in a really bad position when she did her press conference.

[lea1977]

How about that ref that got out of the chair and gave a little pep talk to that male player that was in a pissy mood and tanking his match?