Dave Chappelle

[Mutagen]

May 4, 2022 13:51:10 GMT -4 Ridha said:

I see him as pushing against the Woke Millenials agenda.

Genuine question: How?

[Ginger]

They don't know yet what the attacker's motive was yet, however Chappelle had been talking onstage about how he has needed increased security after the controversy of his last Netflix special.

The special was interesting and I'm glad Netflix aired it. The 8 or 9 minute segment in which he discussed his friendship with a trans woman (who is now deceased) was a mix of different things. There was overt misogyny (he talks about threatening to punch women) and overt transphobia (he does not accept trans women and calls himself a TERF). He took the stance that it's not possible for him to "punch down" on trans people, which is a debatable topic on its own. The crux of the story was that he connected with this woman as an aspiring comedian and the way she expressed her humanity through standup, and that part of it was resonant.

It was an honest story. It provided material for about a thousand "What Chappelle Got Wrong" articles, which I think is always the best response. You think he's wrong? Say why, back it up and be more convincing than him - that's how you win.

Making him a target for hatred because aspects of what he said were offensive and/or wrong is not the way to go. I'm tired of it. It is a malignant way of responding to the world.

Notably, Chappelle has said that people come up to him to confront him all the time, but when they do it in person, they are so much more respectful than they are on social media. It reminded me of the Will Smith/Chris Rock slap being compared to a twitter smackdown that became real. I would not be surprised if this attack does turn out to be the same sort of thing. It's not good, and it should not be expected because he said things that upset some people.

[cremetangerine82]

CW: suicide, divorce, custody battle, PTSD, lying

The most frustrating thing is that Dave was completely not honest about his “friendship” with Daphne Dorman (1975-2019), the trans woman he mentioned who sadly took her own life. If we’re talking about him “supporting a comic”, he gave her no support on her open-mic night and left her to dealing with a hostile crowd who booed her and allowed her to be verbal accosted and dealing with the crowd’s heckling at her expense. Even if she wasn’t funny, that’s not how to support a comedian Dave called a “friend”.

Speaking of friendship, he never went to her funeral, or subsequent memorial services, he didn’t even know she had a daughter and was involved in a bitter custody case with her ex-spouse and her struggles with PTSD. Instead, he framed her suicide as just caused by the “woke LGBTQ+ mob” harassing her to death. Suicide is much, much, much, MUCH more complicated than that; I’m sure the social media backlash was painful, but Dave was being dishonest about it being the #1 cause of her death.

He also described her suicide as manly (misgendering her in death, how respectful as a “friend”) and “gangsta shit”, which is an incredibly insensitive and pernicious way to talk about someone ending their own life, followed up by disingenuously saying that she would’ve found that funny. Since she’s dead and can’t speak for herself, how would he even know that when it seems like he barely even knew Daphne at all?

It it pisses me off that the one part that almost made the special for me was him lying about him being friends with Daphne, which he certainly wasn’t friends. His special didn’t just “upset some people”; it was hurtful.

[chitowngirl]

Apparently after the attack, Chris Rock, who was there also, came on stage with Dave and asked, “Was that Will Smith?”. That’s what Will is now…a punchline.

[Ginger]

I forgot that there was troublesome stuff about how he discussed her suicide. (I'm going all from memory of having seen the special when it first came out.)

Nov 29, 2021 1:38:37 GMT -4 cremetangerine82 said:

His special didn’t just “upset some people”; it was hurtful.

It upset some people because it was hurtful? I don't think there's a big distinction between these two things.

Some of Chappelle's material through the years has been incisive and powerful. And then a lot of his stuff is offensive/hurtful/bad/wrong/[insert adjective of one's choosing].

My response of choice is to accept that I'm not going to like or agree with a lot of what he says, and don't particularly like him personally very much. But I still find it worth listening to his specials, and they tend to stay in my thoughts for a long time. Dismissing him as a hateful person who should be shut down, deplatformed, and attacked is what I don't agree with.

[cremetangerine82]

CW: racism, anti-semitism, suicide, child abuse, anti-LGBTQ+ rhetoric, verbal abuse, physical assault, transmisogyny, misogynoir, just misogyny

I will state this as clear as possible: I deeply and sincerely condemn the person who attacked Dave Chapelle on stage, for whatever reason. As much as I loathe his disgusting and harmful rhetoric and “free speech” has never been free from consequences, physical violence is NOT okay AT ALL.

Upsetting people is a very mild way of talking about gay men as “talking cats”, mocking the trauma of molested children, mocking the women comedian victims of Louis CK (who just won a Grammy, what cancellation?), Jewish people controlling space, Asian Americans getting beaten up for the coronavirus, discussing his wife’s and transwomen’s gentalia in disgusting and dehumanizing terms, and discussing black women and white feminists as pushy bitches who were too overzealous with holding powerful men who abuse their power. Dave calling himself “team TERF” is aligning with a hate group who want trans people to be erased and publish “happy” social media posts when a trans person ends their life; Dave talked about comedian Kevin Hart, who posted he would beat the gay out of his son; and Dave discussed rapper DaBaby, who said gay men are promiscuous and lesbians have malodorous vaginas during a concert.

Those are hurtful words, not just upsetting, and verbal abuse IS very much abuse; I’m a survivor of it from family and peers. I’ve only been physically hit less than ten times in my life, and those bruises healed a long time ago. I’ve had surgeries and injuries that left scars, but I’m still recovering. The words that have been said to me reverberate in my head constantly and the hurt continues decades later and make me regret living because it’s so painful. Sticks and stones may break bones, but words ARE damaging, and I’m tired of a society that brushes them off as if they’re not deeply damaging.

It’s not a “agree to disagree” on comedy, but punching down on people he sees as acceptable targets deserves criticism and condemnation when he is allowed to speak in order to say hurtful AND offensive words on an internationally distributed platform like Netflix. And you can’t say he’s being deplatformed when he is actively having comedy shows (the last one in which he was almost attacked) and received $20 million for his last special from Netflix, and has four more specials coming out and which he’s hosting. Saying that he’s being deplatformed is being just incorrect. I wasted my time siting through both his specials; the last one had ONE funny joke.

[prisma]

In his documentary series on Cosby, Kamau Bell points to the infamous "poundcake speech" as the moment when Cosby went from being Black America's Dad to Black America's Angry Grandpa. I feel like Dave Chappelle has gone through a similar transition. (Definitely not saying Chapelle was ever a predator like Cosby.) Chappelle was always edgy in a way that Cosby was not, but I feel like there's been a shift in him in the last 10 years that I can't quite articulate. It's like following that self-imposed hiatus that he took following his disillusionment over the way the system treated him, he now enjoys identifying with the rich and powerful and punching down.

I listen to Kara Swisher's podcast regularly--she's a really important tech journalist. I like her because, while I agree with her politics, she's very sensible and doesn't get carried away with emotional talking points that a lot of us (including me) are inclined to do. When she and her co-host were talking about Chappelle after the furor kicked up over his last special, she said she thought he was a genius but that he clearly has a problem with trans people and punching down like that is beneath him. And since trans people are perhaps *the* most targeted and vulnerable populations right now, he deserves the backlash he's getting. I agree with that stance.

I've always loved Dave Chappelle and was happy when he came back with his first Netflix specials a few years ago. But I don't think targeting trans people is funny so I am making the decision not to watch anymore because I don't want to inflate his numbers. That's my choice. I'm sure he'll be fine. But not so sure about trans people in this current political climate.

[GirlyGhoul]

When I first heard about the attack, I didn't think of Will Smith- I thought of Dimebag Darryl. I'm glad Dave wasn't hurt or killed by this attacker.

That said, I'm not a fan of his current standup routines. When he's right about stuff, he gets it right and does great comedic work and important social commentary. But sadly, when he's wrong he stays wrong and doubles down, unwilling to hear the other side of things. Not a fan of that, nor do I agree with the messaging that he's the G.O.A.T when it comes to comedians.

But this attack was a horrific thing that should never have happened and I'm glad he survived and hope his calls for extra security are taken seriously now.

[tiggertoo]

I know who he is and I’ve seen him on SNL etc but I’ve never watched any of his standup. I know there was that kerfuffle last year about the Netflix special and anti-trans stuff, but I’ve never seen it. I do know he seems to be revered by a lot of other comedians. I think I will check out some of his stuff to form my own opinion.

That weapon looked seriously scary!

[batmom]

the Woke Millenials agenda.

Ah,yes. That pernicious agenda that asks us to respect the humanity of others.