Dave Chappelle

[hellsbells]

May 5, 2022 12:00:46 GMT -4 batmom said:

the Woke Millenials agenda.

Ah,yes. That pernicious agenda that asks us to respect the humanity of others.

NO! Anything but respecting individuals!!!

[Neurochick]

Jun 22, 2021 13:36:50 GMT -4 Ridha said:

Woke Millenials agenda.

I wish someone would explain to me what "woke" really means and why that's bad. Here's my reasoning:

One of the reasons it's so hard for people to get and stay sober is because when you're drinking and taking drugs, it's like you're asleep. You can't deal with life, you don't have the tools to deal with things. But when you get sober, it's like you "woke up" for the first time in a long time and sadly, that's not good for some people.

As for Dave Chappelle, I like some of his bits, but I really, really, really don't get this making fun of trans people. I see trans people as people who are trying to match their bodies with their gender identities, which I don't think is a bad thing.

[zwinter]

Woke is not bad. When people use it in a "bad" context, they're putting the same contemptuous spin on it that they used to reserve for "politically correct". They're co-opting it!

[cremetangerine82]

What really frustrates me about Dave’s jokes about trans people is that they’re so cheap and predictable and beneath his abilities as a comedian. Again, they’re the same things that I keep hearing on social media when it comes to anti-trans people (trans women aren’t women, their bodies are gross, pretending that trans men don’t exist, etc.), and there’s nothing original to his observations. It’s frustrating as someone who was so incisive about racial disparities on his show and his comedy specials has no idea that his statements about trans people reduce them to a punchline and erase their humanity. I wouldn’t call being “a decent person” is someone who considers trans people to be cheap fodder for jokes and isn’t “brave” by speaking out against a “woke millennials agenda”, but a bully who doesn’t want to respect trans people as human beings.

Also, it’s frustrating that he considers the LGBTQ communities to be all-white, when people can be both black and LGBTQ+ exist. I know, I exist. There’s no excuse for his ignorance on intersectionality when he mention Sojourner Truth in his special about her being both black and a woman! In 2021, the same year The Closer was released, according to the Human Rights Campaign, was the deadliest on record for trans and non-binary people, with 57 trans and non-binary people being killed, the vast majority being black and Latina trans women.

The late Norm Macdonald said he stopped doing trans jokes because it felt like punching down, and he just didn’t like punching down. The fact that the people Dave considers are being punched down on are a wealthy rapper (DaBaby), wealthy comedians (Kevin Hart, Louis CK), and a trans woman comedian that he lied about being friends with (R.I.P. Daphne Dorman).

[Mutagen]

Yeah. As much as I would like to think people are going to react to Dave's trans jokes thoughtfully and analyze all aspects of trans rights... let's be real. A lot of people just want an excuse to laugh at trans people. They don't give a fuck about deeper understanding or intellectual understanding. Chicks with dicks are funny! That's the end of it. And Dave is giving them that excuse, giving them permission, by couching it in this narrative that he's challenging the mean internet wokies. 

And what really makes him a gross hypocrite to me is that I know he's capable of thinking about the consequences of jokes. Because it's exactly why he walked away from Chappelle's show at the height of its success -- because he realized he was, however unintentionally, giving white people ammunition to laugh *at* black people. Now he's giving his audience permission to laugh AT trans people, only this time, he doesn't care. 

I will say, I think there are valid jokes and critiques to make about the selectiveness and viciousness of internet moral outrage. But I am officially over the special pleading for standup comedy. Sometimes a comedian is a brave truth-teller. Sometimes you're just a stale asshole with a mic. Dave Chappelle isn't being persecuted or "cancelled" because people are starting to put him in the latter category. Also, in another moment of hypocrisy, it should be noted that for all Dave's supposed outrage about the mean old internet, he doesn't seem to have a problem with goading his fans to harass Hannah Gadsby.  

[Ridha]

May 5, 2022 12:00:46 GMT -4 batmom said:

the Woke Millenials agenda.

Ah,yes. That pernicious agenda that asks us to respect the humanity of others.

Yep sure, you got me, ‘respecting humanity’ is what I have an issue with. Would that be called twisting words, or a Straw Man argument, out of genuine interest? Kindly don’t ascribe your entirely subjective definition to me, thanks.

[petitesuite]

Saying "your definition is wrong" while declining to provide an alternate definition is also not a persuasive or well-reasoned argument, even if you are responding to a straw man. Someone else asked you, sincerely, to explain what you meant and I notice you haven't taken the time to respond to that yet.

[Neurochick]

Jun 22, 2021 13:36:50 GMT -4 Ridha said:

Yep sure, you got me, ‘respecting humanity’ is what I have an issue with. Would that be called twisting words, or a Straw Man argument, out of genuine interest? Kindly don’t ascribe your entirely subjective definition to me, thanks.

My original question was: What is bad about being "woke?" For me it's about not being awake, seeing things as they are, not sleeping through life. That's why I don't get why the word "woke" is seen as something bad.

[esperanza]

May 7, 2022 19:35:56 GMT -4 Neurochick said:

Jun 22, 2021 13:36:50 GMT -4 Ridha said:

Yep sure, you got me, ‘respecting humanity’ is what I have an issue with. Would that be called twisting words, or a Straw Man argument, out of genuine interest? Kindly don’t ascribe your entirely subjective definition to me, thanks.

My original question was: What is bad about being "woke?" For me it's about not being awake, seeing things as they are, not sleeping through life. That's why I don't get why the word "woke" is seen as something bad.

I just read in a psychology article that the problem with being “woke” is that it is closely related to cancel culture, and while the ideology of anti racism and anti prejudice is where we should be headed, cancelling someone or calling someone racist for their words or actions is not the way to do it, and that it attacks free speech because of the fear of being called out or cancelled. I guess that is why there are so many “anti-woke” people.

[Millis]

May 7, 2022 22:17:32 GMT -4 esperanza said:

May 7, 2022 19:35:56 GMT -4 Neurochick said:

My original question was: What is bad about being "woke?" For me it's about not being awake, seeing things as they are, not sleeping through life. That's why I don't get why the word "woke" is seen as something bad.

I just read in a psychology article that the problem with being “woke” is that it is closely related to cancel culture, and while the ideology of anti racism and anti prejudice is where we should be headed, cancelling someone or calling someone racist for their words or actions is not the way to do it, and that it attacks free speech because of the fear of being called out or cancelled. I guess that is why there are so many “anti-woke” people.

I get so annoyed with this idea (not your idea, the idea in the article) that somehow calling people out for the crappy things they say or do is an attack on free speech. If the government isn't coming to arrest you, it's not an attack on free speech. People can feel free to say whatever they want, but if the things you are saying are objectionable to some people or a business like Twitter, those people or businesses have every right to 'cancel' you. Some people might like what you're saying, and they will continue to support you. No one is really ever 'cancelled', look at Mel Gibson, Louis CK, or DAVE CHAPPELLE! Sure they've lost some supporters, but they're not cancelled by any means.