Beyoncé Knowles

[discoprincess]

Jun 20, 2018 2:07:11 GMT -4 deeconsistent said:

but two rap collabs in a row with your crusty hubby?

LOL at how you just shaded Jay-Z!

[wixy]

Deeconsistent, if you're expecting a Lemonade-esque type of juggernaut, then yeah, I guess this is a letdown. I personally love the album. It makes an apt bookend for Lemonade and Jay's 4.44. It's like the last piece of the puzzle. The songs are happy, celebratory, interesting, thought-provoking and honestly... fun. That was a bit unexpected because of Lemonade's depth and somber topics and visuals. So, this is a genuine nice suprise.

And Beyonce's vocals are just in a whole different stratosphere to her peers. What she can do musically is severly underrated. I loved this interview with two of the producers:

Producers

If absolutely nothing else, I have to love this line by Bey.

”My great-great-grandchildren already rich/That’s a lot of brown chil’run on your Forbes list”

For a black woman in this America, at this time to put that line down for posterity, gives me chills.

[tanyak]

Jun 20, 2018 2:07:11 GMT -4 deeconsistent said:

I am not a big fan of rap-Beyonce. I was fine with her in small doses because it was a nice change and it showed she had versatility, but... that's not what I signed on for. The original papers said "r&b chanteuse". I am willing to accept that the boundaries of music are more fluid than ever, but two rap collabs in a row with your crusty hubby?

I guess I just don't even understand why she's rapping so much. That "Top Off" song she did with Jay, Future and Khalid flopped. And that was after "Shining" with Jay and Khalid flopped. Our local hip-hop station, which is a legit station, played them both for about two weeks and then snatched them. You have to work hard to have a DJ Khalid song flop. lol

Anyhoo, I watched "Apesh$t." Stunning visually. The song - meh.

[FotoStoreSheila]

I want to spend 1 day at Casa Jayoncé. I need to know if Blue is really as unimpressed with Jay and Bey as she seems

[deeconsistent]

Jun 20, 2018 10:39:42 GMT -4 wixy said:

Deeconsistent, if you're expecting a Lemonade-esque type of juggernaut, then yeah, I guess this is a letdown. I personally love the album. It makes an apt bookend for Lemonade and Jay's 4.44. It's like the last piece of the puzzle. The songs are happy, celebratory, interesting, thought-provoking and honestly... fun. That was a bit unexpected because of Lemonade's depth and somber topics and visuals. So, this is a genuine nice suprise.

And Beyonce's vocals are just in a whole different stratosphere to her peers. What she can do musically is severly underrated. I loved this interview with two of the producers:

Producers

If absolutely nothing else, I have to love this line by Bey.

”My great-great-grandchildren already rich/That’s a lot of brown chil’run on your Forbes list”

For a black woman in this America, at this time to put that line down for posterity, gives me chills.

Wixy, I'm a black woman and I actually felt a little surge of guilt as I typed my last post. When I was writing it, I was questioning myself about why I felt compelled to write it. She has more than enough detractors and there are probably more people on this board who think of her in a negative light than people who would consider themselves fans. If the album ends up doing poorly, it's not something I'll be happy about. I can't think of another example of a major celebrity leaning into their blackness AFTER establishing themselves as an industry powerhouse. So, why even bother posting something negative? Whatever is going to happen is going to happen. She's already made an indelible mark on entertainment.

I think it's because I feel like she's purposely challenging fans loyalty and maybe I felt like putting it out there would be a small step in getting her to stop. Like the previous poster said, I don't think any of her rap songs have been hits, but she keeps on putting them out. Other than that Ed Sheeran song, she hasn't had a radio hit-rap or otherwise- in a while. There are other smaller things that seem like little cracks in her armor (that I've possibly magnified in my mind.)

The line you quoted is actually something that has been bothering me about her. I hate how much she talks about her money, her paper. It's not even a jealousy thing, because I admire how commercially successful she is. I get that it is a powerful sentiment, but it's also... I don't know... classless? Not that I need my Beyonce albums served up with a side of tea and crumpets, but I just don't know.

Regardless, I already know I'm going to get the album this weekend and spend Saturday morning listening to it while cleaning out my apartment. I honestly do hope it is celebratory. I hope that "Top Off" and "Ape Sh**" aren't representative of the sound.

[tanyak]

I am also a black woman. I admire Beyoncé’s business savvy and I wish her well. I still find her very tiresome. I just feel she’s extra in so many parts of her life. Her message most of the time is good, it’s just all the drama surrounding her message. And the complete insanity of some members of the Hive. And I’m with Dee— i’m over all of her talk about her money, and how everyone wants to get close to her at parties and similar bragging.

My best friend, also black, and I have talked about this before. I don’t know why we feel we have to whisper if we have any criticism of Bey. I get that people in other demographics have gone for her neck, and obviously that’s not right. But I just can’t stan for her, either. So I just stay quiet, although I hope this is a safe place to be real.

[Babycakes]

Jun 20, 2018 19:59:50 GMT -4 tanyak said:

I am also a black woman. I admire Beyoncé’s business savvy and I wish her well. I still find her very tiresome. I just feel she’s extra in so many parts of her life. Her message most of the time is good, it’s just all the drama surrounding her message. And the complete insanity of some members of the Hive. And I’m with Dee— i’m over all of her talk about her money, and how everyone wants to get close to her at parties and similar bragging.

My best friend, also black, and I have talked about this before. I don’t know why we feel we have to whisper if we have any criticism of Bey. I get that people in other demographics have gone for her neck, and obviously that’s not right. But I just can’t stan for her, either. So I just stay quiet, although I hope this is a safe place to be real.

I agree completely. But I'll go even farther. Beyonce ain't Jesus despite what the hive thinks. She is flawed, and at times problematic (IMO). And she definitely isn't exempt from criticism. It may sting to do so, especially in "mixed company", particularly because she has conquered a medium that revels in Misogynoir. But call a thing, a thing. She probably peaked with Lemonade. The rapping, uptick in sexy photos, and general raunch she's presenting isn't going over as well as her past incarnations. Who knows why. Some of the fanbase is tired of the same leotards, songs, and dance moves. Some are angry that she has forgiven Jay Z and is bringing him along and giving him a platform. Some think it's all a money grab. I don't know. I don't really care either. They were never going to get a penny from me anyhow. And I stopped listening to Jay Z after The Black Album. But I don't think there's anything wrong with holding your fave accountable for missteps. Critiques based on valid issues, and not racism and misogyny are okay. I know she gets a lot of petty hate (see: Misogynoir) but, don't feel bad deeconsistent. I'm sure it comes from love.

[ladyboy]

Is Misogynoir a real thing or did you come up with that term? It's brilliant.

I'm not a Bey fan, nor a hater, but I generally find discussion of her - her fame, what she's doing with her shows, her music, etc, - far more interesting than actually watching or listening to her. I love the thoughts Babycakes and Deeconsistent are sharing - good analysis of her broadly, as well as a personal response to her. It's very interesting to read. Please, continue!

PS I am kind of sick of her leotards on stage and sheer dresses at events. I also don't want to hear braggy songs about how much money someone has. My theory on that topic, which spans all artists, not just her, is that when they start they're poor/normal, and can write songs about all sorts of things. When they make a lot of money, their world view and experience narrows to such a stupid, unrelatable point that they end up singing about their bank accounts, cars, and Pilates classes.

[sugarhigh]

The album is pure fun, not in the same league as Lemonade but that's okay. I really hope that this chapter is closed and she decouples her image from Jay-Z. I like him as an artist (mostly his older stuff) but have no interest in seeing their images and careers more intertwined.

[americanchai]

It is giving a boring Faith Hill/Tim McGraw or Blake Shelton/Gwen Stefani package vibe. Why? It's like when married actor couples act together - somehow less believable.