The Dark Knight Rises

[huntergrayson]

Yeah, I'm kinda shocked over the fact that TDK and Inception actually won Oscars in the Sound Editing/Mixing Categories due to the "what the hell are they saying!??!" problem. Just because it's big and loud doesn't mean it's a good mix.

I liked Batman Begins a bit more than TDK, actually, even with the Katebot problem. I will say that I'm happy Rachel is gone since she was a lame character created by Nolan that didn't really serve a decent purpose and was written poorly. I *got* that she was supposed to humanize Bruce but it didn't work in the execution.

[angelaudie]

I liked the TDK but I agree it was overhyped (though Heath's performance more than lived up to expectations) and too long. The whole Harvey Dent becomes Two-Face could have easily been it's own film. It just felt tacked on. Aaron Eckhart was great as Harvey/Two-Face though.

I will say that I'm happy Rachel is gone since she was a lame character created by Nolan that didn't really serve a decent purpose and was written poorly. I *got* that she was supposed to humanize Bruce but it didn't work in the execution.

Yeah, Rachel sucked though Maggie at least gave her some semblance of a personality. Rachel is the ultimate example of Nolan sucking at writing women.

I saw the trailer for the TDKR when I saw Sherlock Holmes and yep my butt will be in the movie theater when this comes out.

[huntergrayson]

The whole Harvey Dent becomes Two-Face could have easily been it's own film.

I agree - that's actually where I thought the movie was going to end and then they have that plotline as the third film.

I read elsewhere that there's some split-second Robin shout-out in the trailer - one of the signs that a fan is holding in the football game apparently looks like the new Robin logo in the comics.

[bklynred]

I have no idea what I just saw, so I guess I'll have to read the deconstruction. No idea what Hardy said. Bale doesn't even speak. This looks shoddily put together, which is strange for a Nolan/Batman movie. That being said, I'll still be there opening weekend.

[Witchie]

Dec 20, 2011 1:41:18 GMT -4 bklynred said:

I have no idea what I just saw, so I guess I'll have to read the deconstruction. No idea what Hardy said. Bale doesn't even speak. This looks shoddily put together, which is strange for a Nolan/Batman movie. That being said, I'll still be there opening weekend.

I had to download it to hear what he said.

"When Gotham is in ashes, you'll have my permission to die."

[save lilo!]

Dec 20, 2011 1:52:38 GMT -4 Witchie said:

I had to download it to hear what he said.

"When Gotham is in ashes, you'll have my permission to die."

Oh, I did understand that in the trailer actually.

I used to watch the cartoons on whatever WB/CW used to be. I just remember Bane being an angry experimental product of something.

Anyway, Nolan not only writes bad female characters (at least in regards to this franchise) but casts horribly too. I hated the past two (Katie/Maggie) and I'm no fan of Anne Hathaway either, so I'm not looking forward to her part. I guess that's why she was at those Occupy Wall Street protests...

[Coffeecakes]

From what they showed of Anne, she sucked balls. Marion smoldered just in her looking at Bale. They f'd up Catwoman's casting for sure. I remember thinking wtf with Heath being cast, but when the teaser came out, he made me a believer. Anne, not so much.

[sugarhigh]

As someone who had no interest in the previous Batman movies, I thought this trailer was kick ass. I could also understand Bane perfectly well. I like everyone in this movie (Hardy, JGL, Anne) so I'll see this in the theatre.

[Witchie]

Apparently Bane's voice & the unintelligible-ness of it is part of Nolan's plan.

GeekTyrant[/color]

[huntergrayson]

I'm sorry, but Nolan? Is a consummate bullshit artist at justifying everything to the press, as I discovered recently while browsing the archives of the LA Times Hero Complex section. Read this thing on Inception in which he and the cast wax rhapsodic about the depth of character development in the film. Such as:

“Inception” was especially popular with tech-savvy young thinkers who saw it as an of-the-moment statement on pixelated life and virtual reality. That’s not really the way Nolan is wired — no iPhone, remember? — but he says the most compelling sci-fi isn’t really about hardware, it’s about the humans inside the machinery of the story. “It’s ideas, characters and stories that resonate, not the trappings. But if you can combine those with the large canvas of film, the scale of it and the visual power of it, that can be something very special.”

Right. The humans. Like saddling two Academy Award-nominated actresses who don't do anything except constantly explain things for the audience/play Exposition Jones and serve as the embodiment of femme fatale evil. In case we don't get it, their names are Ariadne (that chick from mythology helps someone through a Labyrinth!) and Mal (French for "bad" - played by a French chick).

JGL pisses me off with this:

The filmmaker’s disciplined eye and intense expectations may well put him on the level of a James Cameron and Tim Burton as far as Hollywood’s most distinctive dreamers of blockbusters, but his actors say it is the small-scale insights they remember.

“He’s very concerned with instilling every moment with a human honesty and organic life,” Gordon-Levitt said. “I never felt like I was playing a device in a heist movie. He would ask me stuff, from big things to little things. ‘You’re carrying a bag in this scene. What’s in the bag?’ That’s the kind of thing you probably should know to be really in the role but you wouldn’t even think of that in a typical action movie — ‘I have a tote bag, it’s my prop.’ He doesn’t want you to think in a two-dimensional way. He doesn’t let things go by unconsidered and that’s why he’s Christopher Nolan.”

I seriously don't care what you think is in the bag when I can't think of a single aspect of your character traits I remember beyond "looks good in a suit."

Inception was fantastic on every level except making me have any sort of emotional connection with it. When I have zero investment with the protagonist meeting their goal and overcoming their obstacles in the three-act arc, that means something is wrong with the writing.

Or, to put it another way - I'm sure Nolan thinks that Bale's RIDICULOUS Batman growl is "part of the plan" too. But it doesn't make it any less ridiculous. Just because a director is able to justify an aesthetic choice somehow doesn't automatically mean that it is the right choice. Nolan is great at mise-en-scene, coming up with interesting high-concept scenarios, lavishing incredible technical detail on a film. Not so good? Character development, coherently editing action sequences (I've seen Michael Bay films that I can "follow" better) and dialogue/sound mixing.

To me, he is not nearly as visionary as the fanboys think he is.

I like NY Mag's 7 Things Bane Sounds Like..

bklynred - io9 has broken it down, screencap by screencap.

The GeekTyrant article is built around a story from THR, which is here, and since it's the Hollywood Reporter, it means it's based in fact rather than gossip and speculation:

Sources close to the movie say Warner Bros. is very aware of the sound issue. One source working on the film says he is “scared to death” about “the Bane problem.” And with good reason. The last Batman film, 2008’s The Dark Knight, grossed more than $1 billion worldwide, and the studio doesn’t want anything to tamper with Rise’s chances for success.

Sources also say some at Warners would like Nolan to change the sound mix, but the filmmaker, whose autonomy is well-earned (his Inception earned the studio more than $800 million and eight Oscar nominations), has informed executives that he plans only to alter the sound slightly, not to rework it completely.

“Chris wants the audience to catch up and participate rather than push everything at them. He doesn't dumb things down," says one high-level exec, declining to be named. “You've got to pedal faster to keep up.”

He's being an asshole. Having the studio be FULLY aware of the problem and wanting to change it with Nolan being totally unwilling to make changes is ridiculous. Having a bad mix isn't artistic integrity. It's having a bad mix. You're not "dumbing things down" for the audience. If the cinematographer or the lab had botched the exposure or a choice to underlight a scene led to such darkness that the audience had NO clue what was actually being shown in the frame, you wouldn't just be like "oh well, here's your screen of blackness, pedal faster."

olan said similar things to The Hollywood Reporter at the prologue’s unveiling during a press event Dec. 8, explaining that it was OK for a moviegoer not to understand what was said at times, as long as the overall idea was conveyed. The filmmaker is currently editing the movie and won't have a cut to show the studio for at least a couple pf months.

While Warners has supported Nolan’s wishes in the past, moviegoer complaints about the character could create pressure to make changes. Or the studio and Nolan can do nothing and hope that fan interest in The Dark Knight Rises outweighs any issues with understanding Bane's dialogue.

Again, he's being a dick. Oh, I don't need you to understand actual dialogue, just "overall ideas." Well then don't talk about creating complex narratives and characters and rich stories when, apparently, the individual building blocks of the dialogue - you know, that magical thing that screenwriters use to reveal characters, move the plot forward, create emotional stakes, etc. - is unimportant to you.

He's really grating on my nerves right now because this isn't a matter of artistic integrity, it's a matter of treating your audience with a modicum of respect. Michael Bay has a "plan" too, for every movie he shoots. Ditto Brett Ratner. Nolan doesn't get to say, "well, yes, but I'm doing that on purpose and that automatically absolves me" because, hello, everything in a film is on purpose. But, again, that doesn't mean it's good.