Fifty Shades of Grey

[Deleted]

It may have started out as skewing to older fans, but its popularity has expanded the audience. A movie doesn't make the kind of box office 50 Shades did without reaching several demographics all at once.

Young women have been leading the ticket buying for “50 Shades.” Almost half of the pre-sales in the U.S were from fans below the age of 30 and two-thirds were women, according to data from Movio, which tracks about 30 million consumers for cinemas, studios and distributors.

“The film is tracking incredibly strongly, with slightly younger females who are being drawn back to the cinema expressly for this movie,” Will Palmer, Movio’s chief executive officer, said in an e-mail. “This demographic group tends to go to movies in a group. This and other indices suggest ‘50 Shades’ is going to be a major event movie.”

If these young women haven't read the books yet, chances are a lot of them will now.

[chonies]

I agree with madefortv, although I feel that perhaps I should keep my mouth zipped on both accounts as I have read about 75 pages of 50SOG and 55 pages of Twilight.

I'm not arguing that 50SOG is some amazingly subversive feminist trope or that it's totes okay, but I am bothered by a web of related factors, including what feels like the intense hyperfocus on one franchise when, like others have argued, the entire system is broken. Like with high fructose corn syrup, there is a problem with the thing itself, but focusing on that, as if it were the only thing wrong with industrialized food production, irritates me. I am also bothered by the paternalistic feel some of the articles have--that women-people can't think for themselves and should be shielded! Related, I don't like this particular fantasy, but it's not my fantasy life, and therefore I don't get to police it. When my curated bubble of feminist sites post and repost multiple 50SOG editorials or analyses, it all becomes an indistinct blur.

Finally, and I know this is hugely contradictory to what I just said, is my "so what?" impulse--maybe the problem isn't the thing itself. Maybe people like 50SOG because they know the backstory, they like looking at the shiny modern apartments, and maybe they like participating in popular culture at a mass level. Maybe they want to read/watch it *because* it's so different from their own life. I watched Peter Pan live because it looked kind of bad, and it is also terribly troublesome in its own way. In a world of Disney princess stories and hypermasculine values for boys, people can and do come out okay under their own devices. Girls can like mass-merchandised princess costumes and still be research scientists if they want, and many of them have healthy relationships. I don't think 50SOG is especially good for our culture, but there are so many cultural messages to choose from--even positive messages that conflict with each other--that I think it's unrealistic to think that it has potential to make a huge effect, especially since so many templates for the potential problems with basing a life on 50SOG have already been laid out.

ETA:

Feb 16, 2015 14:02:01 GMT -4 @highondegrassi said:

Feb 16, 2015 11:29:59 GMT -4 chonies said:

Here's another article in the same vein: Fifty Shades of Gilded Cages: The Luxury Branding of Domestic Abuse

I am personally a tad bit tired of the domestic abuse discussion in the media about the film. I know it is, but this is starting to feel like the high fructose corn syrup debate. I know it's pretty terrible, but I can think for myself, thanks. And yes, I acknowledge that maybe it shouldn't exist in the first place, but that horse is out of the barn, so maybe the conversation should shift a bit.

But what about the young women who can't think for themselves? There are girls who are raised without strong female role models, and there is close to zero education about womens' history and womens' issues in public school. The last thing they need is to see a "heroine" like Anastasia and a "hero" like Christian. If I had read this book when I was in my early 20s, there's no way I would have understood I was reading a tale of abuse, especially when I keep hearing about how hot and romantic it's supposed to be. The massive popularity of 50 Shades means there has to be massive pushback to minimize the cultural damage.

I think where I see the difference is that it seems so obviously fantastical to me that the only part of the story that remains accessible to me is the bit about Ana redeeming Christian through true love, which is not a concept unique to 50SOG. The other problem--that Christian is into BDSM because he was abused--is also a very common trope, although more like, "he bullies because someone is pushing him around/she's on heroin because her dad died, etc." I don't think it's very likely that a 20something female would be in the same position as Ana to make the same decisions--no billionaire swooping down in a helicopter, although certainly it's more likely to be a continuum. Adding to that, an abusive relationship can happen to emotionally strong and well-centered people. I think the concern is valid, but I wonder if it's important that this exists as an alternative model, or a barometer of some sort.

In my 20s, one of my favorites was The Happy Hooker by Xaviera Hollander. Did this make me want to be a sex worker? No. Did it make me want to live in the NYC of the 1960s? Yes. Did it teach me about entrepreneurship? A little. I learned some other things, too, like the Dutch colonists in Indonesia were rounded up by the Japanese during WWII. My point here is that there are all sorts of layers of meaning, and an outside voice policing good books and bad books and bad books with shitty messages isn't especially helpful. I think the cultural pushback (a concept I agree with) needs to come from a different direction. What direction? I have no idea--well, I have a few, but I don't know if they're practical. But I think a lot of the media about 50SOG has the same effect as concern-trolling. I know there's a deficit, but I don't think taking away something people are interested in is the right answer.

[Deleted]

I'm not arguing that 50SOG is some amazingly subversive feminist trope or that it's totes okay, but I am bothered by a web of related factors, including what feels like the intense hyperfocus on one franchise when, like others have argued, the entire system is broken. Like with high fructose corn syrup, there is a problem with the thing itself, but focusing on that, as if it were the only thing wrong with industrialized food production, irritates me.

It's pretty hard to change entire systems all at once. You have to chip away at it. There are now products that tout being high fructose free. Does that mean the entire food industry is better? Of course not, but it's certainly a positive thing, and it can lead to more positive things because it indicates that it's "cool" to care about what's in your food. Baby steps. Same with domestic violence or the patriarchal society. The more popular cultural events like the 50 Shades movie are criticized, the more people hear the message. Chipping away one person at a time.

I don't like this particular fantasy, but it's not my fantasy life, and therefore I don't get to police it.

Nobody gets to regulate the fantasies of others, but it's important to point out that fantasies about emotional abuse, which at its core is what 50 Shades is, can be damaging when young, inexperienced women are encouraged to have them. The problem with 50 Shades isn't the sex, it's the relationship, the contract that Ana has to sign that dictates every aspect of her life. It's abuse and ownership, plain and simple. 

When my curated bubble of feminist sites post and repost multiple 50SOG editorials or analyses, it all becomes an indistinct blur.

The vast majority of young women hear little to nothing about feminist issues because they are focused on mainstream media sources. The more they hear about these issues in the mainstream media the better. 

ETA:

In my 20s, one of my favorites was The Happy Hooker by Xaviera Hollander. Did this make me want to be a sex worker? No. Did it make me want to live in the NYC of the 1960s? Yes. Did it teach me about entrepreneurship? A little. I learned some other things, too

I'm not familiar with that book, but I read 50 Shades far enough in to know that the primary motivation of the relationship between Ana and Christian is Christian's COMPLETE control over Ana's life -- what she eats, what she wears, her mandatory exercise routine, where she goes, who she is allowed to be with, etc. -- It's an abusive relationship. Abusive relationships can have redeeming qualities just like everything else, but that's the trap that women who are involved in them fall into. There's no room for a middle ground or "learning other things." An abusive relationship needs to be seen as that alone. The book you described sounds a lot different than 50 Shades because it sounds like the female character had a certain extent of control over her own life.

[Ninja Bunny]

Feb 16, 2015 11:26:05 GMT -4 @madefortv said:

Also IMO the guy comes off as kind of an ass. Just watch the movie and shut up about it. I'm sure there are plenty of crappy movies your wife has watched for you. Something about him just rubs me the wrong way.

He didn't even want to go but he went for her and he watched it quietly (minus a couple minutes of the giggles). He even said he thought the film is ridiculous but maybe the movie has a different meaning for her than it does for him since she read the books, the same way it would be if he took someone to a superhero movie who didn't grow up reading comic books. He was being generous to his wife. He didn't leave until SHE said she wanted to leave. I didn't see anything assholish about his thoughts or his behavior. He seems like a pretty nice guy with a funny sense of humor who loves his wife and values her as a person, actually.

[Deleted]

Feb 16, 2015 23:37:24 GMT -4 Ninja Bunny said:

Feb 16, 2015 11:26:05 GMT -4 @madefortv said:

Also IMO the guy comes off as kind of an ass. Just watch the movie and shut up about it. I'm sure there are plenty of crappy movies your wife has watched for you. Something about him just rubs me the wrong way.

He didn't even want to go but he went for her and he watched it quietly (minus a couple minutes of the giggles). He even said he thought the film is ridiculous but maybe the movie has a different meaning for her than it does for him since she read the books, the same way it would be if he took someone to a superhero movie who didn't grow up reading comic books. He was being generous to his wife. He didn't leave until SHE said she wanted to leave. I didn't see anything assholish about his thoughts or his behavior. He seems like a pretty nice guy with a funny sense of humor who loves his wife and values her as a person, actually.

He said that he automatically vetoed the movie to begin with but then after that told her she could buy tickets. Then he talks about how he was starting to think less of his wife because of the movie (supposed to be funny, I know, but forgive me if I'm not rolling at that joke). He claims that his wife is the one who said they could leave, but for one thing, like I said it makes no sense that she supposedly loved the books and hated the movie, and for another, who knows what kind of demeanor/vibes he was putting off while watching the film, so maybe that's the reason she actually wanted to leave (I have a friend whose husband does this- if she "drags" him to anything he doesn't want to do, he pouts, sighs, quietly bitches, etc. in a way that's specifically directed at her until she finally gets so fed up, she tells him they can leave). Also I don't think it's "generous" to go see a movie your wife wants to see on Valentine's Day, it's just being a husband. But anyway, like I said it was my personal impression of the guy and how he came off to me when I read his post, so obviously other people may have interpreted it differently.

[Deleted]

He claims that his wife is the one who said they could leave, but for one thing, like I said it makes no sense that she supposedly loved the books and hated the movie

Isn't that actually a pretty typical reaction for someone who loves a book series when they first see the movie it's based on?

who knows what kind of demeanor/vibes he was putting off while watching the film, so maybe that's the reason she actually wanted to leave (I have a friend whose husband does this- if she "drags" him to anything he doesn't want to do, he pouts, sighs, quietly bitches, etc. in a way that's specifically directed at her until she finally gets so fed up, she tells him they can leave).

I don't know your friends obviously, but I wonder how often she "drags" him to places he doesn't want to go and they go through the routine of him acting like a child and her subsequently treating him like one. Sounds like they might both have a hand at created this little play they act out with each other.

Also I don't think it's "generous" to go see a movie your wife wants to see on Valentine's Day, it's just being a husband.

Why is Valentine's day all about what the wife wants?

[Neurochick]

Feb 16, 2015 14:02:01 GMT -4 @highondegrassi said:

Feb 16, 2015 11:29:59 GMT -4 chonies said:

Here's another article in the same vein: Fifty Shades of Gilded Cages: The Luxury Branding of Domestic Abuse

I am personally a tad bit tired of the domestic abuse discussion in the media about the film. I know it is, but this is starting to feel like the high fructose corn syrup debate. I know it's pretty terrible, but I can think for myself, thanks. And yes, I acknowledge that maybe it shouldn't exist in the first place, but that horse is out of the barn, so maybe the conversation should shift a bit.

But what about the young women who can't think for themselves? There are girls who are raised without strong female role models, and there is close to zero education about womens' history and womens' issues in public school. The last thing they need is to see a "heroine" like Anastasia and a "hero" like Christian. If I had read this book when I was in my early 20s, there's no way I would have understood I was reading a tale of abuse, especially when I keep hearing about how hot and romantic it's supposed to be. The massive popularity of 50 Shades means there has to be massive pushback to minimize the cultural damage.

Are you saying that some books and movies should be censored because they might damage some people? Who makes the decision of what does and doesn't get made?

Books like 50 Shades have existed for decades, those were the ones with Fabio on the cover; and had plots like a pirate kidnapping a young heiress that he threatens to "violate" but in the end she falls in love with him, or some nonsense like that.

I probably won't go see this movie because the guy playing Grey just doesn't do it for me, but I read the books. Should I not have been allowed to read them? Like I said, who makes that decision?

The real problem is that too many people don't know the difference between fantasy and reality and why fantasy can never become reality.

And the real draw in this book isn't the BSDM, it's the fact that Grey is rich. If Grey were poor or middle class, the book never would have made as much money as it did.

[Deleted]

Are you saying that some books and movies should be censored because they might damage some people? Who makes the decision of what does and doesn't get made?

OMG. Of course not. I'm not sure how disagreeing with the statement "maybe the conversation should shift a bit" can be interpreted as a desire for censorship. If anything, I think my posts make it clear I want ALL the information out there and accessible. If I didn't articulate that correctly, I apologize. A lot of the eyerolling about the abuse discussion regarding 50 Shades comes from a more mature and educated personal worldview that a lot of young women don't have. I'm just saying that it's a good thing to have a discussion about 50 Shades and all the other negative imagery that women are constantly subjected to for the sake of the younger, less educated women.

The real problem is that too many people don't know the difference between fantasy and reality and why fantasy can never become reality.

I know. They're called teenagers and college students. The more they are exposed to honest discussions and criticism, the better.

ETA: I should probably make it clear that I don't judge anyone who likes 50 Shades. Opinions about entertainment tend to be based on life experiences, and I don't expect everyone to see things the same way that I do. I tend to see everything through the lens of a parent who has raised teenagers. I'm always like "what about the children!" and that can get annoying, but I just can't help myself.

[Neurochick]

Feb 17, 2015 13:37:20 GMT -4 @highondegrassi said:

Are you saying that some books and movies should be censored because they might damage some people? Who makes the decision of what does and doesn't get made?

OMG. Of course not. I'm not sure how disagreeing with the statement "maybe the conversation should shift a bit" can be interpreted as a desire for censorship. If anything, I think my posts make it clear I want ALL the information out there and accessible. If I didn't articulate that correctly, I apologize. A lot of the eyerolling about the abuse discussion regarding 50 Shades comes from a more mature and educated personal worldview that a lot of young women don't have. I'm just saying that it's a good thing to have a discussion about 50 Shades and all the other negative imagery that women are constantly subjected to for the sake of the younger, less educated women.

The real problem is that too many people don't know the difference between fantasy and reality and why fantasy can never become reality.

I know. They're called teenagers and college students. The more they are exposed to honest discussions and criticism, the better.

ETA: I should probably make it clear that I don't judge anyone who likes 50 Shades. Opinions about entertainment tend to be based on life experiences, and I don't expect everyone to see things the same way that I do. I tend to see everything through the lens of a parent who has raised teenagers. I'm always like "what about the children!" and that can get annoying, but I just can't help myself.

Ah, I see your point.

The most damaging thing to me about these books really isn't the BDSM, it's the classism. This is a male dominated society, men make more money than women and because of this, sometimes women have to put up with a lot of bullshit. The real seductive part of this movie is that Christian Grey is wealthy, his wealth is what makes him hot and it's probably why the book did so well, it wouldn't be a fantasy if Christian Grey lived in a trailer park.

[Deleted]

Feb 17, 2015 7:43:58 GMT -4 @highondegrassi said:

He claims that his wife is the one who said they could leave, but for one thing, like I said it makes no sense that she supposedly loved the books and hated the movie

Isn't that actually a pretty typical reaction for someone who loves a book series when they first see the movie it's based on?

who knows what kind of demeanor/vibes he was putting off while watching the film, so maybe that's the reason she actually wanted to leave (I have a friend whose husband does this- if she "drags" him to anything he doesn't want to do, he pouts, sighs, quietly bitches, etc. in a way that's specifically directed at her until she finally gets so fed up, she tells him they can leave).

I don't know your friends obviously, but I wonder how often she "drags" him to places he doesn't want to go and they go through the routine of him acting like a child and her subsequently treating him like one. Sounds like they might both have a hand at created this little play they act out with each other.

Also I don't think it's "generous" to go see a movie your wife wants to see on Valentine's Day, it's just being a husband.

Why is Valentine's day all about what the wife wants?

Obviously we disagree on this, which is absolutely fine. But I see no reason to start making assumptions about my friends over this (??). And no actually, that's not true at all.

Most couples I know treat Valentine's Day as more of a girlfriend/husband holiday. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, I honestly don't care (and really don't ever celebrate it myself anyway).

And on that note, I'm over debating this, because I really don't think I need to continually defend my opinion on some dude's Facebook post...