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Post by proper stranger on Dec 21, 2015 19:44:05 GMT -4
I didn't really care for Adam Driver, either. He just came off as way too petulant/emo and lacked any real gravitas or charisma. I know it's not fair to compare anyone to James Earl Jones' voice performance, but Vader worked on every level in the original trilogy: both as straight-up evil badass in Star Wars and The Empire Strikes Back, and as the more conflicted Vader/Anakin in Return of the Jedi. Also, Driver Spoiler
is not really believable as the child of Carrie Fisher and Harrison Ford. Spoiler
I understand that some of Kylo Ren/Ben's "motivations" are probably being held back to preserve the element of surprise in that backstory. However, it just made his total embrace of the Dark Side and intense hatred of Han look completely irrational. Anakin's issues were rooted in his childhood as a slave, separation from his mother, and the murder of his mother. What issues could Emo!Ren have had that led to his downfall? He had loving parents and Luke as an uncle. If their intent is to ultimately bring BenRen back from the Dark Side, it's a tough order. He killed a character that fans have loved for almost 40 years, and that not easily forgivable to a lot of fans. On the plus side: I really did enjoy the movie otherwise. Rey and Finn were awesome. I loved the moment when Spoiler
Anakin/Luke's lightsaber "chose" her. Very Excalibur. I think Rey Spoiler
is Luke's daughter. Jedis aren't supposed to have children, but maybe he figured the rules weren't necessary anymore after ROTJ. Maybe Luke felt a "disturbance" in the force and abandoned her in order to keep her safe?
My husband thought maybe she was Kylo Ren's twin sister, but it doesn't make sense that Han & Leia wouldn't know about her. I know the more accepted school of thought is that Rey Spoiler
is Luke's daughter. I'm with your husband, though, and would love if Spoiler
she turned out to be Han and Leia's (and BenRen's twin sister). It could help explain why he's so enraged at his parents: maybe they all believe Rey to be dead somehow, and Ben held them responsible? It would be an interesting twist on the "twin" aspect from the Original Trilogy: this time, the twins would be fighting on opposite sides. Yeah, a lot of crazy, soapy stuff would had to have happened to make "Rey as a Solo" work, but Star Wars has always been kind of soapy. Plus, I don't want that emo loser to be the only child that my badass OTP ever had. Also, Spoiler
in the scene after My Ultimate Heartbreak, when Rey hugged Leia, wasn't the music cue used "Han Solo and the Princess"? I mean, I guess it could be because of Han's death, but I thought it was interesting to hear that particular theme when Rey was onscreen. |
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Post by Binky on Dec 21, 2015 20:05:37 GMT -4
I didn't really care for Adam Driver, either. He just came off as way too petulant/emo and lacked any real gravitas or charisma. I know it's not fair to compare anyone to James Earl Jones' voice performance, but Vader worked on every level in the original trilogy: both as straight-up evil badass in Star Wars and The Empire Strikes Back, and as the more conflicted Vader/Anakin in Return of the Jedi. {Spoiler}I understand that some of Kylo Ren/Ben's "motivations" are probably being held back to preserve the element of surprise in that backstory. However, it just made his total embrace of the Dark Side and intense hatred of Han look completely irrational. Anakin's issues were rooted in his childhood as a slave, separation from his mother, and the murder of his mother. What issues could Emo!Ren have had that led to his downfall? He had loving parents and Luke as an uncle. If their intent is to ultimately bring BenRen back from the Dark Side, it's a tough order. He killed a character that fans have loved for almost 40 years, and that not easily forgivable to a lot of fans. Because we got no back story for Kylo Ren, {Spoiler}we actually don't know what kind of parents Leia and Han were. I agree that I desperately do not want that sick fuck-up to be the only product of my all time OTP, so I want to be sold on what flipped his switch. Something terrible happening to Ben (and or a sister, but I think that Rey is Luke's daughter) that he was able to blame on them (or on the Jedi) would convince me. |
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Post by pathtaken on Dec 21, 2015 20:09:20 GMT -4
I don't know what I am doing wrong. Some of the spoilers I can see and others I can't. I know I am missing interesting things. If they won't show when I click on them, I click on Quote like I'm going to respond to the post, then you can read it all. After I've read it I just go back to the original page. |
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Post by Atreides on Dec 21, 2015 20:17:49 GMT -4
I don't know what I am doing wrong. Some of the spoilers I can see and others I can't. I know I am missing interesting things. For the posts with blue spoilers, just click and read. Other posts (including mine) have the word SPOILER in white. You have to click that first and then highlight the text to read it. |
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Post by bklynred on Dec 21, 2015 20:50:03 GMT -4
As a casual fan I thought this was cute. I'm only telling you guys because we probably won't bump into each other on the street, but I dozed off about three times in the first 30 minutes, but then I was really into it. Ahem. That being said, the corny C-3PO stuff was too much; I think it tried to reach too many layers of fans. But I'd still give it a solid A-/B+, just b/c I'm so grateful JJ Abrams was able to successfully reboot this and the cast diversity made up for the flaws. I'd even see it again.
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ElleCee
Blueblood
Posts: 1,471
Oct 19, 2005 21:09:38 GMT -4
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Post by ElleCee on Dec 21, 2015 21:45:50 GMT -4
My thoughts on Kylo Ren {Spoiler}I liked how unstable he was here. I'm expecting him to find balance and become more and more centered as the movies go on. He's chosen the dark side now and I can see him getting stronger and more like Vader now. Rey thoughts {Spoiler}First of all she kicked ass and loved it. She's so good with a staff I can see her creating a double sided Darth Maul-like lightsaber for herself. With which she will kick ass with I don't doubt! |
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Post by ikmccall on Dec 21, 2015 22:31:36 GMT -4
I just got home from seeing this and it was glorious. I thought it was as good as the original. It makes me almost imagine that the second trilogy never happened.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Nov 28, 2024 6:51:02 GMT -4
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2015 23:03:08 GMT -4
I've seen a lot of criticism of Kylo Ren {Spoiler}for being a pathetic loser of a villian. I get people wanted a vader (and a vader of Episode 4, not 1-3 or even 5). But I think Kylo Ren is what Anakin was supposed to be, if WTF George Lucas was doing hadn't turned him into a whiny, moping idiot. Kylo Ren is a loser - he's obviously incredibly shitty at being a Sith. He does things wrong. He can't torture effectively. He loses his temper and has violent tantrums. The stormtroopers are scared of him because he's violent and unpredictable. They fear him but they don't respect him. He's defeated by both Poe and Rey. Rey is a tiny litle girl who uses her lightsaber like a staff and he's too mad to control himself and think remotely tactically about how much bigger, stronger, and more evil he is than her. What I loved about his performance was how he radiated desperation and malevolent insecurity. He's incredibly dangerous but he's also sad and if only he hadn't stabbed Han, I could forgive him. I really hope we get an adequate back story as to what turned him evil. It's really a shame JJ Abrams had to spend energy and development erasing/reinventing the prequels. They were so, so bad. My thoughts on Kylo Ren: {Spoiler}I like that he is a hot mess. I don't want Vader Jr. and I don't want Darth Maul 2.0 with a villain who looks badass but has zero story, characterization or even dialogue. I find him unpredictable and volatile. No, he is not as scary or intimidating as Vader, but after killing his own father, I have no idea in which direction his story will go. |
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Post by kostgard on Dec 21, 2015 23:10:44 GMT -4
On Kylo Ren: {spoiler}I get the feeling that he was a troubled kid for whatever reason. Han said that he "had too much Vader in him." And Leia said something about how she shouldn't have let go of him or something along those lines, and I just get the feeling that he was packed off to Uncle Luke at a relatively young age, and he resented his parents for it, all "Mom and Dad don't love/want me." He's pretty emotionally stunted, which often means a trauma at a young age that he wasn't able to move past. And a lot of his rage was directed at himself (when he was fighting Finn and Rey in the snow and was injured, he kept hitting himself in a way that struck me as more of a way to show frustration/punish himself for getting injured rather than trying to help the injury/distract himself from it).
While I'm sure Luke wasn't unkind to him, he may have treated him more like a student than a nephew, which lead to more "I'm not loved/wanted" type feelings. Or if he's like his grandfather, he didn't handle the discipline/self-control aspects of Jedi training all that well.
I'm guessing he'll be darker next time around. They were pretty heavy-handed with the symbolism of the light going out of him (with Poe - talking about the sun and the weapon - all "As long as there is light, we have a shot!" and right before Kylo stabbed Han, the sunlight that had been streaming into the room from the open door above went out. Killing his father killed the "light" he still had in him). I just wonder if he'll have better control. [/spoiler] On Rey: {spoiler}I lean more towards "Luke's daughter" (he gave up the whole Jedi thing when things with pear-shaped with Kylo, so he was free to donk some lady), I considered that she could be Kylo's twin - twins do tend to run in families - but I don't think the way Han and Leia reacted to her jives with that. Han didn't recognize her at all and didn't show interest in her until she showed how capable she was with the flying and the mechanical skills. While she and Leia shared a hug, I think that was more about how they were both obviously hurting more than the others (with the exception of Chewie) over the loss of Han and they recognized that in each other. Leia didn't really treat her like a long-lost daughter. I also think she would have been more reluctant to let her go after losing Han and losing her son to the dark side. [/spoiler] |
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Post by GirlyGhoul on Dec 21, 2015 23:43:37 GMT -4
I just got home from seeing this and it was glorious. I thought it was as good as the original. It makes me almost imagine that the second trilogy never happened. Pardon my blasphemy. But I'm gonna toss out there that I think its BETTER than the original! The original is obviously a Masterpiece, but for all its awesomeness- the dialogue could be pretty damn hokey. The cast was famous for teasing George Lucas that you could write the sh*t but you couldn't say it. It never mattered all that much, because the movie overall was awesome. This movie had all the awesome without the hokiness in the dialogue. There was maybe one or two lines that were borderline cheesy. But overall everyone was able to speak to one another without all the clunkiness that sometimes brought the originals into eyeroll territory. P.S. Taking my 81 year old mom to see this tomorrow! Hey she took 6 year old me to the very first one back in the day so *sniff* this'll be a long over due gift back. (I mean... I did take her to see Phantom Menace as well... But we've ummm... never spoken of that again...  ) |
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I think Rey 
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