Big Little Lies

[Deleted]

I wonder if Celeste suddenly put 2 and 2 together about something Perry may have told her about his mother during their marriage.

[Ginger]

Hopefully it's not as simple as Celeste knowing that Perry or his mother killed Perry's brother.

It was very realistically portrayed in Season 1 why Celeste stayed with Perry, and why she got the momentum to leave him when she started to accept that her life was in imminent danger.

If Celeste had known that whole time that Perry had already killed a family member, even if the story had been soft-pedaled to her with a sob-story explanation, that would retroactively change the premise behind all of the decisions she made in Season 1. She was adamant that Perry would never harm the children - but she knew he'd already *killed* a child? That logic would not work.

Even if it was Mary Louise who did it, Celeste was aware of the pattern of abuse continuing from parent to child. That was one of the major themes of Season 1. She wouldn't have been able to justify Perry's violence, knowing that he was perpetuating the same abuse he experienced as a child and passing it on to the twins.

This season is bad enough without them doing retroactive damage to a great Season 1.

[Wol]

Where to start with this literal shit show? Not sure if Katie or Celeste win Dumbest Lawyer Ever. I got my law degree from University of Law and Order and I know that the first thing you do in a custody case is hire a private detective/get dirt on the other party. But they are shocked - SHOCKED - at mean old ML and Ira. Then Celeste suddenly grows a pair when it seems obvious to address the fitness of the person filing for custody? There's dramatic structure and then there's treating your characters and your audience like idiots. Very convenient that Bonnie's mother has these incredible psychic tendencies but manages to sleep through Bonnie's epic confession. At least we have an explanation why idiot Nathan bagged such a hottie (I love Zoe). The bankruptcy judge made a big show of taking everything away but Renata's still got designer clothes, bags, and jewelry. Makes PERFECT sense. Either we don't know Corey's full agenda or he's Perry 2.0 because the last thing you want to do to win over a woman who's been raped is stalk her and then TELL HER you're going to keep stalking her until she cracks. I'm not going near Tori because she's too ridiculous. I did like Madeline drunk in her wedding dress and that it so obviously didn't fit; the dress was probably a size -4 because Reese is a 0 but I still liked it. But the best is Bonnie asking if they can kill her mother because that's how you'd treat a dog. I liked Renata stuffing Gordon's mouth with kleenex but I think he's overdue for a stiletto to the nuts.

As for the BTS - GREAT points about the whole "sisters doing it for themselves" narrative Nicole and Reese were pushing and the reality of two guys (David E. Kelley is a DICK, I know nothing about JMV except I really like his work) taking the show away from a female director. HBO is and has been a putrid boys club. Richard Plepler (we called him Tan Man, he makes Trump look pasty) is the worst and I am waiting for his Me Too moment. None of this surprises me.

[kostgard]

Jul 15, 2019 11:26:49 GMT -4 @imeldamarcos said:

I just realized, with Vallee taking all Arnold's footage back to Montreal with him, that explains the Quebec Film tax credit at the end of every episode. I guess all the "11 editors" are Quebecois who work there as well. I have always wondered why on earth an American show, filmed in Malibu, with an apparently all American cast, qualified for a Canadian film tax credit, but there it is.

I wondered about the Canadian things in the credits too, and...there it is.

I'm hanging in there on the show because I like the characters/performances and I'm a complete-ist. I don't feel the need to walk away yet, but I'm kinda dreading the possibility that they can't wrap everything up in one episode and next week will come with a season three announcement.

And I agree that the plot is nonsensical all due to the fact that they decided to lie instead of claiming self-defense. The cop stalking them is ridiculous. And she's doing it because of the lie. Bonnie dithering around is because of the lie. The lie is weighing on Maddie's marriage because Ed can tell she's keeping things from him. The lie is making things worse for Celeste.

There IS good stuff to mine from these characters, and they are just scratching the surface in a way that isn't that satisfying. Jane trying to heal while juggling the fact that her son has learned the truth about who is father is and the extreme pain she feels knowing her son has to live with the knowledge that he's the product of rape is worth exploring, and we're just getting a small taste of it. Renata, who despite her successful career still clings to some rather old-fashioned ideas, needs to learn that she does NOT have to pay for her husband's sins. He's not holding up his end of the bargain. It's okay to walk away. Celeste's recovery is also interesting, but we only got a really good look at the extent of it in this episode. Same with Bonnie. We're just scratching the surface.

And unfortunately, I don't think the Maddie/Ed marriage is as interesting as they think it is. They've pretty much been in the same position all season and nothing has really changed. Maddie is sorry for cheating, but...she hasn't really done any self-reflection. She wishes she could be a good wife to him, but...it just isn't there. She hasn't really done anything to understand Ed better, and Ed has just been soaking in his bitterness. I can see why Ed fell for her - she was fiery and exciting. She chose him because he was steady and reliable, but he's very vanilla and she can't handle that (Honestly, I think Ed would be a better match for Jane. She'd appreciate sweet, steady and devoted). I'm just not all that invested in it. Unless some brilliant twist happens in the last episode, I'm gonna be all, "Why?"

ETA: As for what Celeste will expose about Meryl, I really hope it isn't that she already knows what happened to Perry's brother for all the reasons outlined above. I hope she plans on exposing the weird, stalker-y crap Meryl's been pulling with Jane and Ziggy and the stuff about her child comes out in the process.

[mrspickles]

Jul 15, 2019 12:22:17 GMT -4 Ginger said:

Hopefully it's not as simple as Celeste knowing that Perry or his mother killed Perry's brother.

It was very realistically portrayed in Season 1 why Celeste stayed with Perry, and why she got the momentum to leave him when she started to accept that her life was in imminent danger.

If Celeste had known that whole time that Perry had already killed a family member, even if the story had been soft-pedaled to her with a sob-story explanation, that would retroactively change the premise behind all of the decisions she made in Season 1. She was adamant that Perry would never harm the children - but she knew he'd already *killed* a child? That logic would not work.

Even if it was Mary Louise who did it, Celeste was aware of the pattern of abuse continuing from parent to child. That was one of the major themes of Season 1. She wouldn't have been able to justify Perry's violence, knowing that he was perpetuating the same abuse he experienced as a child and passing it on to the twins.

This season is bad enough without them doing retroactive damage to a great Season 1.

I can't decide for sure, but I get the feeling this was supposed to be the theme for the whole season. It just isn't quite 'working' which could be because of the director/ editing issues.

We're seeing most of the main characters struggle with issues that they are now seeing as the sins of the parents have impacted the choices they've made. Bonnie's confession to her mother, Madeline talked about her father's infidelity and the secrets he asked her to keep, Renate talks about growing up poor and fighting to succeed to prove that she's overcome that. I can't remember Celeste or Jane talking much about their childhoods, but they're fighting the next generation thing with Perry's impact on the boys. And I consider ML's manipulativeness to be a form of abuse.

The secret keeping that goes along with a troubled upbringing was then echoed by all the kids parroting to their 2nd grade teacher all the rationalizations for lying that they obviously heard from their parents.

I too hope they don't go with 'Celeste knew all along that ML did something'.

[Deleted]

I didn't say that I think Celeste knows that Perry or ML killed his brother, that would be ridiculous. What I think is, Celeste suddenly realized something, or just put 2 and 2 together about "something" Perry or ML said, that she has a hunch and wants to question ML.

And hasn't it been known for years that David E. Kelly is an asshole? I considered not even watching this show last year because of the stuff that I heard during Ally McBeal (which I never watched), that he was a control freak with the women, that he was always trying to get them to lose more and more weight. Didn't one of the actresses say that after the show ended?

[mrspickles]

Jul 15, 2019 13:06:24 GMT -4 @imeldamarcos said:

I didn't say that I think Celeste knows that Perry or ML killed his brother, that would be ridiculous. What I think is, Celeste suddenly realized something, or just put 2 and 2 together about "something" Perry or ML said, that she has a hunch and wants to question ML.

And hasn't it been known for years that David E. Kelly is an asshole? I considered not even watching this show last year because of the stuff that I heard during Ally McBeal (which I never watched), that he was a control freak with the women, that he was always trying to get them to lose more and more weight. Didn't one of the actresses say that after the show ended?

Courtney Thorne Smith, I believe.

[Ginger]

Courtney Thorne-Smith and Portia de Rossi both had eating disorders during Ally McBeal and both of them have called out "the atmosphere on the show" but I don't think they have ever blamed David E Kelley personally. (Because I've been waiting for that to happen and as far as I know, it still hasn't.)

Portia de Rossi kind of made it sound in her memoir like Calista Flockhart, as the lead, was setting the tone on set by spending her lunch hour every day working out instead of eating, and they felt they needed to do the same.

I would say that Courtney and Portia don't want to call out Kelley and eliminate future job opportunities, but I don't think either of them wants to be employed on a Kelley show ever again. Courtney quit Alley McBeal after the third season because of her eating disorder and Portia has said she's retired.

[Babycakes]

Hollow. It's just all so hollow. I feel nothing for these characters. The needle moved a tiny bit for Bonnie last night, but it's too little too late. They should have had more leading up to her revelation over the last few episodes. It's just been Bonnie sitting in a hospital room looking sad with occasional millisecond flashes of her mom abusing her.

Madeline. I feel nothing. She's not convincing in her sorrow or remorse. The scene of her (drunkenly?) dancing in her fugly wedding dress did nothing for me. It was so hollow. There was no passion, no chemistry, no emotion in that scene. It could have been a random scene from any show/movie inserted into the episode.

Renata continues to be the only reason to watch the show. Her meltdown after finding out the French nanny was banging her toad of a husband was the highlight of the episode.

Celeste. My god. The stupidity burns. How is it just now she's remembering she's a lawyer, and needs to fight back against Mary Louise. I could almost excuse the random hookups (which seriously came out of left field) as her trying to fill the hole (no pun intended) that Perry's death caused. They were passionate and volatile. You can't just turn that off in yourself. But her being completely and utterly blindsided rang false to me. I can't believe the boys wouldn't have asked her about the man in her bed before they told grandma.

I guess they're going to give Nicole her Emmy submission scene next week when she shreds granny on the stand about raising a monster. Booo--urns. Too little, too late.

Jane and Corey (who still looks like he wandered in from a after school special) are so, so boring.

Detective lady is cartoonish and boring.

Ed has officially pissed me off. Either cheat or leave. Dragging this out is infuriating. If he doesn't cheat and goes back to Madeline, he deserves all the misery that it entails. Or maybe when he finds out she's still kept one secret, he'll finally bounce for good? I don't ever care anymore.

Renata for Queen in 2020.

ETA: I also had a fleeting thought that the police planted a recording device in Bonnie's mom's hospital room.

[scarlet]

Mar 27, 2005 13:52:29 GMT -4 Babycakes said:

adeline. I feel nothing. She's not convincing in her sorrow or remorse. The scene of her (drunkenly?) dancing in her fugly wedding dress

I was distracted by the fact Reese looked 3 feet tall in that scene. Be it the angle it was shot at or the pooling dress on the ground (due to be barefoot, I presume), it was an hilarious visual.