Politics XVI: Democracy In The Balance

[Spinderella]

I was watching some clips on YouTube and then came across an interview at the RNC Convention with Emily Maitlis (she's awesome!) and Kari Lake and it was a doozy. But listening to Kari's responses about Biden's likeability (during the 2020 election and that is why it was rigged because he couldn't possibly have been liked more than Trump) and now inability to "string two sentences together" got me thinking...after I commented on the clip, I thought I'd share my thoughts here, too.

What's interesting is that those statements "can't string two sentences together" and "do you really believe that he was more popular than Obama" should be all that we need to see that if you dislike Trump enough, which clearly more Americans did in 2020, they'll vote for just about anyone else. Why can't that be true in this case? If anything, Trump is even worse than ever before and his intentions are made clear (he doesn't hide them at all) about what the next four years and beyond would look like. That's all that the Democrats and Independents need to say, "Nope. Not doing this again." and VOTE for Biden. Even if he's old (he was just as old as Trump was four years ago) or whatever adjective you'd like to use to describe him as of late, that's why we have safeguards in place should there be any reason that he couldn't serve once re-elected. That's what the 25th Amendment is for and protects the vote that the majority of the American people wanted to be protected...Democracy. People should look at this as, no, he isn't the best choice with his age, but he is who we have and we don't dislike his ultimate intentions which are supported by others in his administration. That worse case, we can have Kamala to take the helm and have her appoint a new V.P., but the bottom line would be that the American people voted for democracy/Democrats as they just couldn't handle not a Republican candidate, but a MAGA-administration. Those are just two different things. Unless the Dems can choose someone who is just a golden choice (which they should have done a long time ago) to take Biden's place on the 2024 ticket, they may just need to stress that you're not voting for Biden on his own, but you're voting to keep American democracy safe. At least you'd have the knowledge that they wouldn't try to extend their term indefinitely and everything that Project 2025 is trying to make happen. They need to make a choice, stick with it, take the focus off of Biden directly and completely shift on what is GOING to happen (they literally provided their playbook!) should Trump win.

It may sound a bit like fearmongering, but we're in a place where we should be afraid. Again, they've provided the playbook on what they'll do to completely flip this country upside down. Knowing that we'd have the possibility of four years of what Trump just did for 90 mins when he accepted the nomination tonight is enough for me to show how desperately we need to not let this happen. In March, Trump said that if he is not elected, that there will be a bloodbath. THAT'S A THREAT. The RNC had speakers that made it clear that, and I'm paraphrasing, if Trump doesn't win then the MAGA/GOP will "be unhinged". And people shouldn't doubt that, people. That's why we can't let them win because thankfully, we have the Biden administration still in place that wouldn't let them come anywhere near the White House, The Capitol, and have the proper protections in place. I have a lot of anxiety with all this and it's really hard to see and hear everything happening, which I'm sure is a common concern for a lot of Americans right now. It just makes me so sick to my stomach that I just hope and pray that it will not become a reality.

[Malle Babbe]

I have nothing to add right now, but I had no idea folks in the GOP were so into Vincent van Gogh...

[ahah]

Jul 18, 2024 22:14:21 GMT -4 dragonflie said:

It is absolutely possible to replace Biden, and not just because Jon Stewart says so. Honestly, there have to be mechanisms in place just because realities are people get sick, die, need to drop out. It makes no sense to have no ability to replace a candidate. If Biden or Trump all of a sudden died, fell into a coma, etc... do the people decrying it is impossible to change now because of ballots, do they think we would be forced to vote for a dead guy because... well... too late to change it now? Of course not. Because... it can be changed if it needs to be. (and no- if Biden died it would not just automatically go to Kamala on the ballots- there would be a process to select the new nominee- and the ballots would change). Heck, the DNC hasn't even happened yet so Biden is not officially on the ballot until he accepts the nomination in August. He's not even ON the ballot yet.

Here are 2 articles that discuss what could happen. Note- neither of them were written in the last few weeks, so they aren't all about forcing Biden out and the sh%t show we've seen in the last few weeks... They show that there are, in fact, mechanisms because this question has been explored before:

here

and here

Yes, it would likely be messy. Yes, it's not ideal. But it is 100% possible.

Legally it is possible. But in an era where one of the largest differentiators between the parties is the Democratic party delivering a message of saving democracy, is it wise? While people can debate if the Democrats truly had a robust primary since with an incumbent president there were no serious challengers, primary voters DID elect President Biden as their nominee. If he's changed, does it weaken the rather important message of accepting election results?

[cubanitafresca]

The fact that there are some mechanisms in place, doesn't change the fact that there are several fundamental problems with changing candidates -

- Historically every time a candidate has been changed at the last minute they've lost. Changing right now when we don't have to is a massive risk with overwhelming odds of failure. Then consider, starting over with a brand-new candidate, with just a couple of months to campaign in a country this large is bad enough, but to be doing so against a former president, who has been campaigning for two years, and who is milking an attempted assassination is an even bigger risk.

- It's also making the assumption that the Rep party is going to act like the normal Republicans of old. They've already proven they will lie, fight, and cheat to steal the election. They are already gearing up to fight in every state to keep the new candidate off the ballot. They will find any loophole to take it to court. They don't even need to win, they just need to tie the Dems up in court until it's too late. And there are plenty of low level judges and apparently some high level ones, willing to do their bidding. If they can keep us off the ballot in just a few states, or even contest them after the election they will steal this election right out from under us.

- And that doesn't even begin to address the clusterfuck of who the candidate will be. Is Kamala strong enough to win? Many people don't believe she is because the press has uniformly ignored the work that she's done throughout this administration. If we don't run her - it's a huge slap in the face to the backbone of our party and we could lose the black vote. Many of whom have noticed that the people calling for Biden to step down aren't calling for Kamala to step up. The fight for who we replace Biden with could get messy and ugly. A contested convention could further damage us and drive away the independents. We need someone who can bring in every single one of the votes Biden got before and a few more.


Biden, imo, is our best shot at winning this election. And that's all we need from him. If he has to step down at some future date, so be it. There are better mechanisms in place to deal with that. Ones that are less messy and favor democracy.

[Ladybug]

This article from a few days ago says that four Dem candidates outperform Biden against Trump in key states: Sen. Mark Kelly (Ariz.), Maryland Gov. Wes Moore, Pennsylvania Gov. Josh Shapiro and Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer. I think Harris and Newsom would be a disaster because the Republicans have already spent years attacking them. My picks out of these four would be Kelly (former astronaut) and Whitmer (survived kidnap and assassination plot).

Four prominent Democrats would perform significantly better than President Biden in key swing states if they replaced him as the party’s presumptive nominee, according to a memo from a Democratic-funded polling group.

The BlueLabs draft memo, first acquired by Politico, found that “nearly every tested Democrat performs better than the President” in the swing states of Wisconsin, Michigan, Nevada, Arizona, Georgia, North Carolina and Pennsylvania.

Vice President Harris also outperformed Biden in polling but by a smaller margin than the top four, according to the memo.

Polling also found that about 3 percent of Trump voters would back an alternative Democrat if Biden steps aside, and about 1 percent of Biden voters would switch to Trump if the president is no longer on the ticket.

We need every Trump flipper we can get.

[Carolinian]

I was drifting off to sleep last night when I realized that if Harris becomes president before the election, the Speaker of the House Mike Johnson would be a heartbeat away from the presidency. I couldn't get back to sleep.

[tabby]

Mar 8, 2005 10:56:27 GMT -4 FiggyPudding said:

or those who wished for an asteroid so many pages ago, there is a rather large one heading our way in 2029 that will pass closer than some of our satellites. It's supposed to miss us, but who knows.

Team Giant Asteroid.

[prisma]

It pains me to say that I don't think a woman is electable. If the internalized misogyny in this country was not already apparent, I don't know how you could miss it with the events of the last few years. I know the anti-abortion stuff has been in the works for decades, but the way it has come to fruition right now seems like a huge backlash to the Me Too movement.

[ahah]

Jul 19, 2024 9:18:57 GMT -4 Ladybug said:

This article from a few days ago says that four Dem candidates outperform Biden against Trump in key states: Sen. Mark Kelly (Ariz.), Maryland Gov. Wes Moore, Pennsylvania Gov. Josh Shapiro and Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer. I think Harris and Newsom would be a disaster because the Republicans have already spent years attacking them. My picks out of these four would be Kelly (former astronaut) and Whitmer (survived kidnap and assassination plot).

Four prominent Democrats would perform significantly better than President Biden in key swing states if they replaced him as the party’s presumptive nominee, according to a memo from a Democratic-funded polling group.

The BlueLabs draft memo, first acquired by Politico, found that “nearly every tested Democrat performs better than the President” in the swing states of Wisconsin, Michigan, Nevada, Arizona, Georgia, North Carolina and Pennsylvania.

Vice President Harris also outperformed Biden in polling but by a smaller margin than the top four, according to the memo.

Polling also found that about 3 percent of Trump voters would back an alternative Democrat if Biden steps aside, and about 1 percent of Biden voters would switch to Trump if the president is no longer on the ticket.

We need every Trump flipper we can get.

I think that if all this comes to be and Biden steps aside, Mark Kelly would be an outstanding pick for the VP candidate. He'd bring strength in winning Arizona. If elected, a Democratic governor would choose his replacement in the Senate. And if I were president with him as a VP, I'd immediately task him with leading the effort to get meaningful gun reform passed which included a ban on assault weapons.

[cremetangerine82]

Harris is a no-go because the misogyny of the American electorate is too strong. At this point, the Democrats should rally behind Biden and forgo any 11th hour changes.