Politics XVI: Democracy In The Balance

[FiggyPudding]

Jul 19, 2024 9:06:57 GMT -4 cubanitafresca said:

- It's also making the assumption that the Rep party is going to act like the normal Republicans of old. They've already proven they will lie, fight, and cheat to steal the election. They are already gearing up to fight in every state to keep the new candidate off the ballot. They will find any loophole to take it to court. They don't even need to win, they just need to tie the Dems up in court until it's too late. And there are plenty of low level judges and apparently some high level ones, willing to do their bidding. If they can keep us off the ballot in just a few states, or even contest them after the election they will steal this election right out from under us.

They've been planning this since before T***p lost. Meeting with news networks (execs have been normalizing T***p for ratings and $$$ and survival, plus let's face it, they think he's better for their business model). Infiltrating every level of gov't trying to install election deniers, more MAGA judges, continuing to enrage the conspiracy theorists.

We should be seeing ads EVERYWHERE about Project 2025 because T***p's clearly afraid of being linked to it. Ads showing him on video lying about, shaking hands with the guy in charge of it, mentioning him in speeches, etc.

And I'm very reluctant to believe polling, but the public seems against the Supreme Court's reverse-engineered decisions (and the midterms reflected that), so point out that another 4 years of MAGA ensures their majority will become even more insurmountable - for their LIFETIME appointments.

For good measure, string together a blooper reel of all of T***p's incomplete sentences, confusing people's names, forgotten words, slurred speech; there's plenty of material out there.

Toss in a list of every criminal case against him and the people he hired, going back to when he stole from his own "charity".
Edited to add: include screenshots of the boxes and boxes of documents he stole sitting on a stage and piled up in a bathroom.

He and Vance get endorsements from Russian officials for crying out loud, what the hell is wrong with people.

[ratscabies]

Plus, the money. The millions and millions of dollars raised thus far by Biden, doesn’t just transfer to the Majikal Candidate. There’s even some hurdles for Harris to get the money, but at least she was on the ticket that raised it.

[royalwave]

Jul 19, 2024 9:18:57 GMT -4 Ladybug said:

This article from a few days ago says that four Dem candidates outperform Biden against Trump in key states: Sen. Mark Kelly (Ariz.), Maryland Gov. Wes Moore, Pennsylvania Gov. Josh Shapiro and Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer. I think Harris and Newsom would be a disaster because the Republicans have already spent years attacking them. My picks out of these four would be Kelly (former astronaut) and Whitmer (survived kidnap and assassination plot).

There was a comment I liked on a recent NY Times article. It read:

"Even if we can convince ourselves that Trump will lose the race irrespective of Biden’s performance, we have a responsibility to elect a president capable of doing the job for the next four years.

We don’t take grandpa’s car keys because we no longer love grandpa. We do so because the risk of grandpa backing over the neighbor kids as he pulls out of the driveway has become too great.

The imperative of winning this election doesn’t excuse us from the responsibility of electing a leader fully capable of doing the job."

This is pretty much the boat I am in right now. I don't believe in electing someone of clearly diminished capacity just because it's less work for the party and I don't think you can necessarily draw a ton of parallels between this election and elections of the past when it comes to what it might mean to change horses midstream. I agree with the Times writer who said Harris can't be the candidate, or really anyone with close ties to the current administration. And it can't be someone as controversial right off the bat as Newsom. But I think it might bring a needed jolt of energy to the party and to voters to have an energetic, articulate younger candidate who could really go toe to toe with Trump in debates and just do better all around at making the needed arguments against him. And you know, not allow things to devolve into a competition between who the better golfer is and which one could actually carry his own bag (probably neither of the existing candidates, to be honest). Finally Trump would look like the decrepit one, which he IS, yet in comparison to Biden standing slack jawed at the podium he unfortunately comes across as "vigorous."

[cubanitafresca]

If Dem's proceed with dumping Joe Biden, the Heritage Foundation is the primary organizations preparing all the legal challenges to the candidate switch. They've reportedly got hundreds of lawyers already researching and preparing potential cases.

One of the things that is not being talked about enough is the connection between The Heritage Foundation and Victor Orban. The once "Reagonite think tank" has multiple connections to Hungary and "Orbanism" Kevin Roberts (the head of Heritage Foundation) claims that he wants to usher in Trumpism.

But instead of Trumpism, Roberts actually seems to be modeling his vision of America on Orbánism, named for Viktor Orbán, the prime minister of Hungary, a country that the European Union views as an “electoral autocracy,” not a democracy, that has stripped rights from LGBTQ+ people, immigrants and women and that has deep ties to Russia. Orbán also celebrates Christian nationalism, calling himself a “defender of Christianity,” and advocating that Christian nationalists in the US and Europe “unite forces.”

And it's not just an ideological admiration for Orbanism There are real connections between them:

Heritage Foundation has partnered with several Hungarian think tanks including Hungarian Institute of International Affairs, Centre for Fundamental Rights, and the Danube Institute. They've done events both in the US and Hungary where many of the goals of Project 2025 were openly talked about.

It seems clear that Heritage, once an institution that promoted Reaganite conservatism, is very keen on Orbánism and sees it as a model for the United States. This can be seen in the aims of Project 2025 and in Heritage’s tight ties with the Hungarian regime. And in Roberts’ own words about Hungary at the 2023 CPAC: “[G]lobal forces are intent on imposing on you a woke ideology that would lay to waste what you’ve so bravely fought to maintain for the past 1300 years: your culture and your civilization. They are the spearhead of a new global order trying to replace the nation-state with international governance. All regimes have a world view and woke is the ideology of the global regime. But you are standing in the way…I’m here to tell you and [Prime Minister] Orbán, ‘Thank you.’” Roberts’ bio from the conference in Hungarian reads “the president of the Heritage Foundation, who sees Hungary as an example.”

I've read in some other places that Orban has used the think tanks to funnel money to Heritage to fund the legal fight against the Dems. Dumping Biden at this point is opening up the door to the Heritage Foundation and their plots.

If you want to read something disgusting - here's Heritage Foundation's ode to Orban

[FiggyPudding]

Well that certainly puts an exclamation point on T***p's repeated, complimentary mentions of Orban at his rallies.

[cremetangerine82]

I'm baffled that the mainstream media (and less baffled by the Democrats) aren't focusing more on Project 2025 and a Eastern European dictator's ties to this government restructuring plan.

[dragonflie]

Jul 19, 2024 13:04:37 GMT -4 cremetangerine82 said:

I'm baffled that the mainstream media (and less baffled by the Democrats) aren't focusing more on Project 2025 and a Eastern European dictator's ties to this government restructuring plan.

My perspective - and I know others may disagree: I just don't think project 2025 is as shocking as some people seem to think it is. To be clear: for ME- a person who is liberal- the ideas it articulates are bad and never what I would want. BUT- it is what I expect from the right. The ideas of project 2025 are ideas I already assume the right/Republicans want. This is not new or shocking information.

This is exactly why I do not want the Republicans to win. Project 2025 didn't shock me into more fear- it's exactly what I already expected. No one who is already even thinking of voting for Trump is going to be deterred by project 2025.

[ahah]

Jul 19, 2024 13:41:53 GMT -4 dragonflie said:

Jul 19, 2024 13:04:37 GMT -4 cremetangerine82 said:

I'm baffled that the mainstream media (and less baffled by the Democrats) aren't focusing more on Project 2025 and a Eastern European dictator's ties to this government restructuring plan.

My perspective - and I know others may disagree: I just don't think project 2025 is as shocking as some people seem to think it is. To be clear: for ME- a person who is liberal- the ideas it articulates are horrifying and never what I would want. BUT- it is what I expect from the right. The ideas of project 2025 are ideas I already assume the right/Republicans want. This is not new or shocking information.

This is exactly why I do not want the Republicans to win. Project 2025 didn't shock me into more fear- it's exactly what I already expected. No one who is already even thinking of voting for Trump is going to be deterred by project 2025.

I agree with you. Every time I hear people say that voters need to know more about Project 2025 so they don't vote for Trump, and then go through a litany of the things it contains that Trump has said without a document he supports, I wonder if people realize that publicizing it is only going to strengthen the determination Trump voters to get him elected.

[FiggyPudding]

Jul 19, 2024 13:56:15 GMT -4 ahah said:

Jul 19, 2024 13:41:53 GMT -4 dragonflie said:

My perspective - and I know others may disagree: I just don't think project 2025 is as shocking as some people seem to think it is. To be clear: for ME- a person who is liberal- the ideas it articulates are horrifying and never what I would want. BUT- it is what I expect from the right. The ideas of project 2025 are ideas I already assume the right/Republicans want. This is not new or shocking information.

This is exactly why I do not want the Republicans to win. Project 2025 didn't shock me into more fear- it's exactly what I already expected. No one who is already even thinking of voting for Trump is going to be deterred by project 2025.

I agree with you. Every time I hear people say that voters need to know more about Project 2025 so they don't vote for Trump, and then go through a litany of the things it contains that Trump has said without a document he supports, I wonder if people realize that publicizing it is only going to strengthen the determination Trump voters to get him elected.

I've thought of this often, and I think his voters are determined no matter what. If Dems gave up they would show up in droves, if it's close, they'll show up in droves. Hatred and vindictiveness only go underground when they're outnumbered, so they can plan to re-emerge later.

Project 2025 is nothing new, but if there's a real chance of their wish list being granted (like some of the recent Supreme Court decisions), that's relatively new. And we're dealing with "low information" voters who might turn the tide.

[cremetangerine82]

Five takeaways from Trump's convention speech.

I'm not surprised he didn't mention the man who was killed at his rally and that Don Jr. wanted J.D. Vance as VP pick.