cremetangerine82
Blueblood
“These are the times that try men's souls.” - Thomas Paine
Posts: 1,838
Nov 29, 2021 1:38:37 GMT -4
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Post by cremetangerine82 on Jul 10, 2024 19:09:26 GMT -4
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Post by cubanitafresca on Jul 10, 2024 19:39:34 GMT -4
It's frightening that this agenda is out there, yet far too many Americans will shrug off any concerns. Well maybe if the Dems would stop attacking Biden 4 months before the election, start attacking Trump, and educating people about this agenda - maybe people would stop shrugging their shoulders. I don't know what pisses me off more - the fact that some Dems think it's okay to just dismiss the votes of millions of people who voted in the primaries for Biden Or the fact that some people actually think that we can pull a magic candidate out of our collective hat and have them set up a campaign, get up to speed and win in less than 4 months. Or setting aside the logistics of getting the candidate, there's also the legality of the situation. Getting them on all of the ballots for starters. Changing candidates right now is going to open up a legal nightmare and the Heritage Foundation is already gearing up for endless legal challenges. Or the fact that no one seems to notice that the majority of people calling for Biden to step aside are people who won't be impacted if Trump wins. They'll just pack up and move to Italy or wherever their entitled asses spend summers. The people who have the most to lose aren't the people calling for Biden to quit - they're the ones fighting for Biden. But the best part of it is that IF Biden loses none of these Dems will ever own the fact that their own actions played a part in it. That spending weeks attacking Biden 4 months before an election might not have been the best idea. But hey we are Dems, that's what we do isn't it? Snatch defeat from the jaws of success. |
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Post by tabby on Jul 10, 2024 19:48:19 GMT -4
when I was in public service when taking anything gifts over $50 could get you in trouble. I work at a state university. We can't accept anything over $5. |
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cremetangerine82
Blueblood
“These are the times that try men's souls.” - Thomas Paine
Posts: 1,838
Nov 29, 2021 1:38:37 GMT -4
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Post by cremetangerine82 on Jul 10, 2024 19:50:20 GMT -4
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mimiblue
Valet
Posts: 34 
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Post by mimiblue on Jul 10, 2024 19:54:10 GMT -4
I don’t understand how the Democrats can switch horses midstream this late in the game. Doesn’t early voting start in 2 months in some states? Get on the Biden-Harris train and work to defeat Trump and Project 2025. Stop shooting yourselves in the foot.
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cremetangerine82
Blueblood
“These are the times that try men's souls.” - Thomas Paine
Posts: 1,838
Nov 29, 2021 1:38:37 GMT -4
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Post by cremetangerine82 on Jul 10, 2024 20:14:49 GMT -4
I'll never forget on of my instructors in grad school talking about how the Democrats should've defeated George W. Bush, but had John Kerry as a candidate in 2004. It's beyond maddening.
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dragonflie
Sloane Ranger
Posts: 2,034
Mar 14, 2005 2:10:14 GMT -4
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Post by dragonflie on Jul 10, 2024 21:05:06 GMT -4
As Jon Stewart said: 4 months is LOADS of time. Many many countries hold elections- from start (announcing the elections (thus the candidates)) to finish (counting votes and announcing winner) in 1 month. In actuality the U.S has a WILD and entirely way too long election cycle. It's ridiculous. In fact, there are many articles about how the US has a (unnecessarily) long cycle that's kinda a joke. here's oneeta: another good article that talks about the history- how we got to such long campaigns (it wasn't always this way), and how many other countries seem to be able to do an entire election cycle in 2 weeks to 2 months- total: hereI get it: Trump bad. We all get it. I think both sides are fighting from the same place of fear.- we don't want Trump. Some ppl think that means: shut up about the Biden questions- focus on the bad man Trump. Others think: the only way we can assure no Trump is to get Biden out. It's the same fear underneath though. All that being said: I genuinely want to know: what do people here think would/should happen if Biden was 100% out? Like say he got so sick he had to drop, say he passed away... do you think: well then we still have to vote for him- he's the one who won the primary! Of course not, there are mechanisms in place. I am just really dismayed at the strong-arming of people asking valid questions. It is 100% valid to ensure the president is of sound mind! (and yes- what about Trump???!!!- I know- we all know- I'm not saying asking about Biden negates the Trump question- just the opposite, in fact). It is not a good look for the party fighting FOR democracy - "saving" democracy- to also be saying: stop asking questions! Shut up and vote for who we tell you to now- your questions are inappropriate. Really?? How democratic- good thing you're working so hard to "save" it. :/ |
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Post by cubanitafresca on Jul 10, 2024 22:00:08 GMT -4
As Jon Stewart said: 4 months is LOADS of time. Many many countries hold elections- from start (announcing the elections (thus the candidates)) to finish (counting votes and announcing winner) in 1 month Yes other countries run their elections in a much shorter time. But he's being obtuse and ignoring the fact that they are set up to do so and have been for a very long time. Our country? not so much. And you can't just change that overnight. The majority of the country has already voted in the primary. The only way for someone else to step in is an open convention which is going to destroy and separate this party even more. We've got deadlines to meet in order to get someone on the ballot. We've got legal hurdles to transfer Bidens war chest to another candidate which mens the new candidate will be handicapped financially. And then we've got the fact that Heritage Foundation already has a fleet of lawyers preparing to contest any and all things related to this election, including any changes made to the candidate. That is the point. That is literally the point. There are mechanisms in place if something happens to Joe. Everything continues forward exactly as it's been set up and Kamala is sworn in. Because that's the system that's been in place forever. But you're asking to reinvent the wheel in less than 4 months and bring in a totally new candidate and start the election from scratch.... While Trump gets further ahead. The thing is, there was a chance to ask your questions, to ask for a change in candidate. Where were these people then? But now that time has passed and it's time to focus on winning. Except now a bunch of people are having a tantrum and demanding a do-over less than 4 months before the election. And a huge bunch of the people doing that are not doing it out of genuine concern about Biden's abilities. They're doing it because they're trying to sabotage the Dems. They threw raw meat into ring and Dems are fighting each other instead of fighting Trump. And I'm sorry on what planet would voting for Joe Biden NOT be saving democracy? There's only one candidate in this race that's a danger to democracy and that's who we need to be focusing our attention on. I love Joe Biden and he's been an exceptional president. But here's the cold hard truth. I don't need him to be president until 2028 I only need him to be president until January 21, 2025. I don't believe Kamala could win, but she'd be a damn good president if she had to be. (and frankly, I think she knows she couldn't win which is why we haven't heard a whisper about her wanting to run) |
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dragonflie
Sloane Ranger
Posts: 2,034
Mar 14, 2005 2:10:14 GMT -4
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Post by dragonflie on Jul 10, 2024 22:14:12 GMT -4
And I'm sorry on what planet would voting for Joe Biden NOT be saving democracy? There's only one candidate in this race that's a danger to democracy and that's who we need to be focusing our attention on. It's not the candidate. (re: voting for Joe "saves" democracy). Voting for a party- or a person (Joe OR Trump) who declares they are saving democracy- while also saying any questions put to them are inappropriate. That we are not allowed to say what we truly think- because, well ,they told us so. That we all need to fall in line - that's not "saving" democracy- imho. The thing is, there was a chance to ask your questions, to ask for a change in candidate. Where were these people then? But now that time has passed and it's time to focus on winning. Except now a bunch of people are having a tantrum and demanding a do-over less than 4 months before the election. Yes, there was a chance to ask these questions. And... there still is. We were given new information. People are concerned. Maybe people weren't asking these questions 4 months ago because they weren't concerned. Maybe they then saw the debate and were like: holy F%ck this is bad! And we've been told for so long that Biden's age "gaffes" were few and far between and that anything said to the contrary was right wing propaganda. And now new informations arises: leaks, people like Joe Scarborough saying 4 weeks ago that Biden was the best ever... then 3 weeks later saying: ugghh- maybe not... this is bad. This caused a LOT of people to have new concerns. I think that is valid. If Biden came on the stage tomorrow night and held his presser and started drooling and couldn't remember his name and answered zero questions then fell off the stage- but then the next day said he was fine and refused to drop out- would that be ok? For some people yes. For others no. There ARE mechanisms in place- you are correct. There are things in place right now- and yes- we could 100% replace him if he had to. At the same time- yes- that wouldn't be great. What would be better- from my perspective- is if Joe dropped out himself- and yes he could do so. He likely won't. Cool- let the chips fall where they may then. I don't think we are likely to agree- as I've said there seem to be 2 camps. That's fine. The thing I don't like is that any questions directed at Biden are now (by some) immediately yelled at: what about Trump!!! Or- be quiet and do what we tell you! That feels REALLY uncomfortable to me. You know what it feels like- it feels like Trump tactics. And if it continues then yes, I'm sorry but we are no better than the Republicans. The truth is it will turn a lot of ppl off. (it already has). And all that does is make way more people less likely to vote. People can scream and demand as much as they like- but I truly believe all the demanding to fall in line will backfire. |
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Post by cubanitafresca on Jul 10, 2024 22:29:09 GMT -4
It's not a "Trump tactic" when there are legit reasons that changing candidates at this point is dangerous and could cost us the election.
It's not a trump tactic when millions of people have voted for Biden and their votes are in danger of being dismissed. That's the opposite of a Trump Tactic. And it's an insulting accusation to make.
But you're right, we are never going to agree. And frankly, I can't even "agree to disagree" when our country stands at the brink. But I will leave this conversation for the sake of the board.
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