Anne Heche

[dragonflie]

Aug 9, 2022 14:57:42 GMT -4 ahah said:

It's not an excuse - it's an explanation.

Fair enough.

And do we look so hard for explanations in all cases of drunk drivers? When an abuser punches their victim in the face do we search to explain with compassion as to why they attacked? When a drunk driver who isn't famous and pretty and white mows down a city street almost killing people and destroying homes is arrested do we search desperately for the why's and ask for compassion towards them? Not typically. And that's my point.

Maybe we should- in all cases. Maybe not, I don't know. I just don't see Heche as worthy of any more compassion, empathy, or explaining, then any other drunk driver or menace that actively endangers others. That she has mental illness doesn't make me any more empathetic- because this is true for a LOT of ppl. I am sorry for all the ppl she hurt, including her own family. I am not wishing her any more pain- and certainly not hoping/wishing her death! I wouldn't in any case. Her's is no exception.

eta: stargirl and cubanitafresca: I am so sorry you had to go through that pain.

[cubanitafresca]

Aug 9, 2022 16:42:47 GMT -4 luckylexie said:

Why do you think she sat up on the gurney while being wheeled into the ambulance? Adrenaline? She didn't look badly injured or burned? I admit that I'm ignorant about burn injuries. Why was her face covered like she was deceased?

I had second degree burns on my hand when I was a kid. I fell and put my hand directly on an 800 degree kiln. I distinctly remember dusting off my hand, which was a little pink and thinking "Whew, I was lucky". I went to my next class and about 15 minutes later I felt a rush of pain, excruciating pain that made me start screaming. I looked down and my hand was swollen, blistering, and bright red. The drs told me that when pain is overwhelming like that, the brain will shut down the pain sensors (that might not be the proper terminology - but the gist is the brain controls the pain) And the same thing happened when I burned my face in a cooking accident.

I feel badly for Heche, partly because she has had a horrible life but also, if she lives, she will have a long painful recovery ahead (and may never fully recover) But life is complicated, and I can also feel like she deserves legal consequences for what she's done.

Part of what makes it a little easier to have some small measure of sympathy for her is that by some miracle she didn't kill anyone. If she had killed someone, it would be a very different story.

[tiggertoo]

I’m really sorry that you both suffered burns cubanitafresca and @stargirl. Thanks for sharing your stories.

I thought of Marco Muzzo as well, ennazus and the family he pretty much destroyed. That could have easily been the case here. Especially bugs me that she crashed once, people tried to stop her, and she took off again. Allegedly.

I feel dragonflie has expressed how I’m feeling. I wish her the best in terms of recovery; it just feels like a bit of a double standard at play.

Ps I’m an early Anne Heche fan, I loved her in Another World when she played twins. Great acting.

[Deleted]

Aug 9, 2022 19:13:54 GMT -4 cubanitafresca said:

Aug 9, 2022 16:42:47 GMT -4 luckylexie said:

Why do you think she sat up on the gurney while being wheeled into the ambulance? Adrenaline? She didn't look badly injured or burned? I admit that I'm ignorant about burn injuries. Why was her face covered like she was deceased?

I had second degree burns on my hand when I was a kid. I fell and put my hand directly on an 800 degree kiln. I distinctly remember dusting off my hand, which was a little pink and thinking "Whew, I was lucky". I went to my next class and about 15 minutes later I felt a rush of pain, excruciating pain that made me start screaming. I looked down and my hand was swollen, blistering, and bright red. The drs told me that when pain is overwhelming like that, the brain will shut down the pain sensors (that might not be the proper terminology - but the gist is the brain controls the pain) And the same thing happened when I burned my face in a cooking accident.

I feel badly for Heche, partly because she has had a horrible life but also, if she lives, she will have a long painful recovery ahead (and may never fully recover) But life is complicated, and I can also feel like she deserves legal consequences for what she's done.

Part of what makes it a little easier to have some small measure of sympathy for her is that by some miracle she didn't kill anyone. If she had killed someone, it would be a very different story.

Agree overall. I don't know if "sympathy" is the exact word I'd choose in regard to her drunk driving, but kind of along the lines of what ahah said, it's an explanation, not an excuse (her struggles with mental health). If I do read about a random, non-famous John Doe, who also had a similar background of mental health struggles that led up to disastrous choices with bad results, I do feel a pang of compassion for which is what I feel for Anne Heche. Probably more than for a famous celebrity, actually.
However I agree 100% with cubanitafresca it's a totally different story if those actions had caused another's death or injury

[Ladybug]

Years ago, I was on the jury of a man charged with his 4th or 5th DUI. He’d already served a long jail sentence for a previous DUI conviction. He was an alcoholic and got sober in prison, but fell off the wagon and got arrested again. Based on the evidence presented in court, we agreed almost immediately that he was guilty of drunk driving. Agreeing on a sentence was not so easy. The women on the jury, myself included, wanted to give him close to the maximum jail time. I felt sympathy for him. He was not a malicious person, he had a disease that repeatedly drove him to make bad choices. Nevertheless, he was a danger to society and a group of us on the jury thought he needed a pretty stiff sentence to keep him from killing someone. The men on the jury had a different opinion. The guy had a school aged son. They did not want this boy to grow up with his dad in jail. If we gave him a shorter sentence he’d get out when the boy was a teenager. We argued that he could kill someone’s parent or child. But the men didn’t want the kid to be traumatized by being separated from his father. In the end enough of the jurors were convinced to give him less jail time. We were in a position to judge and punish someone guilty of drunk driving but it wasn’t as easy to just say “lock him up forever.” There were a lot of factors people considered, and the jurors brought their own perspectives to the deliberations.

[cremetangerine82]

My deepest sympathies, cubanitafresca and stargirl. Thanks for the insight, Ladybug.

My perspective is as someone who was in a car accident that was 100% my fault that's left me physically and mentally unable to work any job, even part-time, since June 2020. I'm sure a jury of public opinion wouldn't give me much sympathy: this isn't my first accident, I'm not paralyzed or suffering serious burns, I'm very broke and black, yada, yada, yada...

Fortunately, the other people weren't injured, but I may have to bear the brunt of pain that has become unmanageable, own $10K on a totaled car, have a poor credit score along with my retired mom, aggravated my other sundry maladies, and cost me two jobs. I'm not a public figure, so I don't have to hear an echo chamber that one day of my 40 years makes me a bad person who deserves the punishment.

I know that, I own the accident as my responsibility, reluctantly filed for disability this month, pray my GoFundMe can cover going back to school for a JD (more debt, great...) and lay on the couch trying to figure what to do with the rest of my life.

[ahah]

Aug 9, 2022 17:38:11 GMT -4 dragonflie said:

Aug 9, 2022 14:57:42 GMT -4 ahah said:

It's not an excuse - it's an explanation.

Fair enough.

And do we look so hard for explanations in all cases of drunk drivers? When an abuser punches their victim in the face do we search to explain with compassion as to why they attacked? When a drunk driver who isn't famous and pretty and white mows down a city street almost killing people and destroying homes is arrested do we search desperately for the why's and ask for compassion towards them? Not typically. And that's my point.

Maybe we should- in all cases. Maybe not, I don't know. I just don't see Heche as worthy of any more compassion, empathy, or explaining, then any other drunk driver or menace that actively endangers others. That she has mental illness doesn't make me any more empathetic- because this is true for a LOT of ppl. I am sorry for all the ppl she hurt, including her own family. I am not wishing her any more pain- and certainly not hoping/wishing her death! I wouldn't in any case. Her's is no exception.

eta: stargirl and cubanitafresca: I am so sorry you had to go through that pain.

IMO, yes, we should look for the explanations, because it can go a long way in changing a person so the behavior is not repeated. That said, I think it is critical to recognize that those actions should be taken by the justice system that is holding those people accountable for what they have done. Lets not fool ourselves into thinking that those of us in the commenting class going for social media justice have no impact on the situation. There's no amount of outrage we can express on line that is going to make things any better - but we might make it worse.

[americanchai]

If she survives, she should definitely get some punishment, of course. For one, her driver's license should be taken away forever.

I have sympathy for her earlier traumas that have led to this situation and I suspect this will sadly continue into her children's lives also, whether she survives or not. It's pretty clear she's in the prison of her own mind and whether she ends up in prison, a mental institution or some residential rehab, she needs to be prevented from taking other people out with her, should she try to end herself. It's all pretty sad.

And of course all the sympathy in the world to the person whose belongings/home was destroyed and all the people who nearly got killed by her speeding through LA.

[Beyle]

Aug 9, 2022 14:18:28 GMT -4 dragonflie said:

Mental health struggles are not an excuse to put others peoples lives in danger. That garners zero empathy from me. I happen to work with ppl with mental health issues. One of the main things we learn: boundaries and expectations on behavior are paramount. Excusing, accepting, or being gentle with aggressive, dangerous, homicidal behavior does no one any favors.

I saw the following on the Deuxmoi sub (think it was in a Britney thread):

"Mental health issues are never your fault, but they are your responsibility."

[Mouse]

Aug 9, 2022 21:46:57 GMT -4 Ladybug said:

Years ago, I was on the jury of a man charged with his 4th or 5th DUI. He’d already served a long jail sentence for a previous DUI conviction. He was an alcoholic and got sober in prison, but fell off the wagon and got arrested again. Based on the evidence presented in court, we agreed almost immediately that he was guilty of drunk driving. Agreeing on a sentence was not so easy. The women on the jury, myself included, wanted to give him close to the maximum jail time. I felt sympathy for him. He was not a malicious person, he had a disease that repeatedly drove him to make bad choices. Nevertheless, he was a danger to society and a group of us on the jury thought he needed a pretty stiff sentence to keep him from killing someone. The men on the jury had a different opinion. The guy had a school aged son. They did not want this boy to grow up with his dad in jail. If we gave him a shorter sentence he’d get out when the boy was a teenager. We argued that he could kill someone’s parent or child. But the men didn’t want the kid to be traumatized by being separated from his father. In the end enough of the jurors were convinced to give him less jail time. We were in a position to judge and punish someone guilty of drunk driving but it wasn’t as easy to just say “lock him up forever.” There were a lot of factors people considered, and the jurors brought their own perspectives to the deliberations.

Okay, that is alarming. Fourth or fifth DUI? Why wasn't his license permanently revoked sooner?