Elliot Page

[Wol]

Dec 1, 2020 20:10:11 GMT -4 ladyboy said:

There's a pretty strong anti-trans feeling in the overall gay community. Not everyone, but they're not the natural allies you'd expect them to be.

I have a little insight into this. Some cis gays are put off at the concept of fluidity - that you can just change your gender identity, or identify as pansexual - because they feel it is a slap in the face to their truth that they cannot change their sexual preference, that their homosexuality is in their DNA, and so much homophobia takes the form of those hideous re-programming efforts. One friend said "If I could be hetero I would, my life would be so much easier." My response argument was that in the same way that cis gays demand and deserve acceptance for who they are, that acceptance/non-judgment must be across the board. Whatever it takes for people to feel happy in their truth must be supported. But I see both sides. Separately I wonder if the anti-trans sentiments come from older gay people for whom transitioning was not an option. Not a good excuse but understandable.

[magazinewhore]

Elliot is mad brave to be a public figure and to transition as one. Big ups to him.

[prisma]

Dec 1, 2020 21:32:33 GMT -4 prisma said:

Dec 1, 2020 20:10:11 GMT -4 ladyboy said:

There's a pretty strong anti-trans feeling in the overall gay community. Not everyone, but they're not the natural allies you'd expect them to be.

That's what Tom and Lorenzo are speaking to in this thread, which I thought was absolutely lovely.

I just listened to this week's Tom and Lorenzo podcast and they go into a little more detail, which was also helpful for me. (It's the middle section of the podcast, after The Crown discussion.) They absolutely will not say Elliot's former name when referring to his previous work, which I thought was extreme when I read the podcast description. But listening to the explanation, I get it now. I also appreciate it that Tom talked about how awkward the pronoun issue is for people of his (Gen X, which is also me) generation, but that awkwardness is not an excuse not to honor the wishes of trans people. It gave me some information I need to do better.

They also mentioned that apparently The Umbrella Academy will incorporate Elliot's transition into its plot line moving forward, which I think is a fabulous opportunity to educate a wider swath of the public about a topic that's pretty foreign to most of us. I enjoyed the first two seasons and I could see them doing a good job with it.

[scarlet]

Nov 18, 2005 14:33:27 GMT -4 prisma said:

. I also appreciate it that Tom talked about how awkward the pronoun issue is for people of his (Gen X, which is also me) generation, but that awkwardness is not an excuse not to honor the wishes of trans people. It gave me some information I need to do better.

I'm Gen X, too--as is my sister--and getting used to the pronouns in regard to her stepson took awhile. I've also become mindful of not posting any old photos on FB (I follow stepson) before his transition, as I feel like that's not cool (though that's just my gut, no one has ever said anything). It's a process, but one that needs to be honored, as far as I'm concerned.

[eclair]

I was thinking that acting on The Umbrella Academy is a really good place to work for anyone who transitions. I see them handling it well. I hadn't heard anything about what they were going to do, prisma, so that's good to know. I was hoping that they'd travel through time and in the next place Vanya is a man, and no one says anything about it. I was slightly irked all this time because Vanya is short for Ivan, like Misha and Sasha, which are also masculine in Russian but not used that way in English. So Vanya doesn't even have to change his name. Now if I could just remember that the show is the Umbrella Academy, I always want to call it the Umbrella Factory.

[kostgard]

Dec 5, 2020 14:30:28 GMT -4 prisma said:

Dec 1, 2020 21:32:33 GMT -4 prisma said:

That's what Tom and Lorenzo are speaking to in this thread, which I thought was absolutely lovely.

I just listened to this week's Tom and Lorenzo podcast and they go into a little more detail, which was also helpful for me. (It's the middle section of the podcast, after The Crown discussion.) They absolutely will not say Elliot's former name when referring to his previous work, which I thought was extreme when I read the podcast description. But listening to the explanation, I get it now. I also appreciate it that Tom talked about how awkward the pronoun issue is for people of his (Gen X, which is also me) generation, but that awkwardness is not an excuse not to honor the wishes of trans people. It gave me some information I need to do better.

They also mentioned that apparently The Umbrella Academy will incorporate Elliot's transition into its plot line moving forward, which I think is a fabulous opportunity to educate a wider swath of the public about a topic that's pretty foreign to most of us. I enjoyed the first two seasons and I could see them doing a good job with it.

I really appreciated their discussion as well, and especially the way Tom admitted it took him a while to get to where he is now, and it wasn’t until they were writing a book on drag culture and saw what a huge part trans women play in that culture that he really started to wrap his mind around it all.

I am also Gen X, and while I don’t really have a problem with the pronoun thing (other than just muscle memory and having to retrain myself to use the preferred pronoun instead of the one I’d been using) and I had no problem calling people the name they want, thanks to their discussion I do have a better understanding of the whole “dead name” issue, and why it can be painful to hear the dead name, even if you are just trying to explain, like “This is John, you may remember him when he used to go by Jill.”

[Wol]

I’m Gen X and I like that Teen Wol and her contemporaries are going to ask “What pronoun do you prefer?” the same way we used to ask someone’s name or ask what they do. It’s going to be integrated into the polite way to make an introduction.

I was confused that Elliot identifies as trans and queer because his wife, AFAIK, is cis and gay. I thought queer still means homosexual which would be complicated by the transition, but I have learned queer now has a different definition and it all makes sense now.

It’s definitely a lot for my middle aged menopausal brain to keep up with but it’s important to me to be a good, informed ally.

[Deleted]

Dec 6, 2020 18:06:32 GMT -4 Wol said:

I’m Gen X and I like that Teen Wol and her contemporaries are going to ask “What pronoun do you prefer?” the same way we used to ask someone’s name or ask what they do. It’s going to be integrated into the polite way to make an introduction.

I was confused that Elliot identifies as trans and queer because his wife, AFAIK, is cis and gay. I thought queer still means homosexual which would be complicated by the transition, but I have learned queer now has a different definition and it all makes sense now.

It’s definitely a lot for my middle aged menopausal brain to keep up with but it’s important to me to be a good, informed ally.

This, I’m here too I don’t want accidentally offend anyone. I am wholly supportive of everyone and how we all live for what ever peace and happiness we can grasp at. I’m all for being happy for us all to be accepted and valued, loved for just being ourselves.

[tanyak]

Another middle-age Gen-Xer here. I am also very supportive, but the editor in me has a question. I see that Elliot is now using the he or they pronouns. Which is fine, obviously. But is there some rule that you have to use both within the same article? I was reading a story from Elliot’s manager, and she kept switching between he/his and they/their practically within the same quote. The red pen in my editor brain was getting twitchy. Lol Is it OK for style purposes, to pick one and just go with it?

[ladytrentham]

I'm retired, so I don't go through them very fast, but I think the next time I order business cards ("name cards" I guess), I'm going to add my pronouns. Just do my bit to help normalize things.