Elliot Page

[prisma]

Dec 8, 2020 22:59:01 GMT -4 ladyboy said:

I asked a native French speaker if they used on as a gender neutral term and they said not really, so having one in English may not help with gender identity usage. I thought they totally would be using it since it’s already built into the language. I’m very interested in how different languages adopt non-binary pronouns.

I was specifically thinking of French "on" when I longed for a gender neutral pronoun, so that stinks that they don't use something that they have built into their language. Did your friend say what they use instead?

I admit that I have trouble with "they/them" as a definite singular. But that's why this discussion is good because instead of grousing about how it confuses me I just need to get accustomed to it and help normalize it. In the TLo podcast he mentioned that we are at just at the beginning of this language movement and it will grow and evolve. That was a good reminder. It really does make me feel old though when I see how adaptable kids and teens are with incorporating this into their vocabularies and practices.

[tanyak]

I have trouble with it as a definite singular as well. And I think it's confusing as heck if the story discusses other people. "They went to the park." Did one person go to the park? Did everyone go to the park? I've seen a few stories avoid pronouns all together, which is stilted but more clear.

People are free to use they/theirs, of course. From a writing/editing perspective, though, it does add another wrinkle.

[zwinter]

The language of this is so fascinating. It reminds me of an article I read about how "Latinx" comes from a very English-speaking place and you can't really use it in Spanish speaking, hence the rise of "Latines".

[lizziebeth730]

Dec 9, 2020 11:20:29 GMT -4 tanyak said:

I have trouble with it as a definite singular as well. And I think it's confusing as heck if the story discusses other people. "They went to the park." Did one person go to the park? Did everyone go to the park? I've seen a few stories avoid pronouns all together, which is stilted but more clear.

People are free to use they/theirs, of course. From a writing/editing perspective, though, it does add another wrinkle.

I feel like some of us always sorta used them/they all the time and our English teachers and our English teacher mom's heads exploded at the murdering of the language ( I had to sneak watching My So Called Life because my mom would lose her shit over how they used the word "like")

The pronouns and deadname things are always interesting to me, and indiviudal responses to them (by that I mean in the theraputic/professional curiousity sense of interesting- my work is more with the disability world than with the LGBTQA+ tho there is overlap from time to time)

I have two friends that are transgender (one who has completed the transition) and one is not as far along in the process. The one who has completed doesn't respond to deadname, but isn't outright hostile- think in the before she was Lisa and now he is Louis. He acknowledges who he was and has a much more relaxed relationship with his past self and identity. The other individual gets visibly upset and somewhat snappy (for lack of a better way to describe it) when anything involving the past person/name is brought up. Now I went to an all women's college with both of these folks, so if I'm at something where these two individuals are also present, I will introduce them as Louis/ Andrew. Louis will always say something like "back then you might remember me as Lisa. Lisa was a GODDAMN DISASTER. Louis has himself under control now" but Andrew will just kinda stew there, hovering just under nuclear, and will never acknowledge that 20 years ago, Andrew was Susan so sometimes people are confused, or if a brief explanation was provided, that they are people who I know will be 100% accepting and are very much live and let live types who would say like " Oh shit, you were Susan. You seem so much happier now.. good for you!" But again, Andrew and Louis get to share their story how they see fit, so I just kinda stand there trying to change the subject and staring into my Old Fashioned.

I wonder if it's a personality thing, or an acceptance of who they are, or maybe it's the full transition that has one person feeling much more secure in who they are..

The people who consistently use deadnames are just pricks tho. It's not hard to call people by what they wish to be called. I definitely identify with people who are frustrated by those people (because DAMMIT I AM NOT A BETH!)

[hellsbells]

I think every human suffers trauma, and that trauma may inform how they relate to their former identities. Support networks may make a difference too. And good old fashioned human psychology.

People who insist on the dead names and not identifying people as they wish to be identified are just assholes. And it's possible that Andrew has met many more of them on his path so he feels more defensive while Louis may have had more accepting people in his life who loved him in his former identity and in his current one.