Outlander

[kostgard]

Uh, did Claire handy-j Jamie back to life?

Other than laughing my ass off at the miracle handjob, this whole episode just had me going, “GAAAAAAAAAAAAHHH!” the whole time.

Guys, the solution to Roger and Bree’s complete lack of chemistry is not more nudity and more making out. That only makes it worse.

Oh, look. Another episode where Roger feels and is completely useless. Let. Him. Go. Home.

Oh, look. Fergus gets a couple scenes where he’s a million times more charming and interesting than Roger.

Oh, look. Here’s Ian also being way more interesting and charismatic.

Was Bree always an engineer? I thought she was a historian like her father. But this felt like the show really stretching/retconning to make Bree happen (sort of like that total retcon last week where Bree came in to Roger’s class and they were clearly dating. They didn’t start to date until she left Scotland and Roger came to the states, and only briefly then, because he was slut-shaming her shortly after they got together, then she went through the stones). So, Claire, the medical doctor who has studied natural remedies, and apparently has been desperate for a syringe since the only one she had broke, didn’t realize that a snake’s fang is basically a syringe needle?

Bree gets rammed by a buffalo, and not a scratch on her. Okay.

Magic handjob.

[Spinderella]

I agree with everything you have said here, kostgard. I immediately wondered if it was a handjob she was giving him, too! Gross and so weird. I'll just convince myself she was rubbing his leg because he complained of being cold. HA!

When Claire's syringe was busted, first thing I thought of was that you can totally figure out a way to make something. They're not in the Stone Age for crying out loud. There has to be something that could easily be strong and hollow and use metal or something to hold the liquid. There's blacksmiths around and others that have sufficient trades.

The thing about Roger is that he just acts all dopey. He's an educated man, raised by a minister, and you can't tell me that he is such a spineless and moronic fool that he can't even sound intelligent? Or thought-provoking? And how is it that he's not familiar with the Last Rites? or anything of the sort. The Reverend lived until Roger was well in his late 20s/early 30s and you can't tell me that he didn't pick up on any sort of religious things. Oh, throw in a bible verse (which he still got wrong) and that makes it better? Ugh. He lived with a Celtic woman who knew of the secrets of the stones and tea leaf readings and he can't recall anything from that? Bullshit.

Seriously, send them all home. Is the next book them living in two times again (with Claire being in the 1770s still)? Because that would be fine by me.

[kostgard]

Apr 20, 2020 2:01:18 GMT -4 Spinderella said:

I agree with everything you have said here, kostgard. I immediately wondered if it was a handjob she was giving him, too! Gross and so weird. I'll just convince myself she was rubbing his leg because he complained of being cold. HA!

When Claire's syringe was busted, first thing I thought of was that you can totally figure out a way to make something. They're not in the Stone Age for crying out loud. There has to be something that could easily be strong and hollow and use metal or something to hold the liquid. There's blacksmiths around and others that have sufficient trades.

The thing about Roger is that he just acts all dopey. He's an educated man, raised by a minister, and you can't tell me that he is such a spineless and moronic fool that he can't even sound intelligent? Or thought-provoking? And how is it that he's not familiar with the Last Rites? or anything of the sort. The Reverend lived until Roger was well in his late 20s/early 30s and you can't tell me that he didn't pick up on any sort of religious things. Oh, throw in a bible verse (which he still got wrong) and that makes it better? Ugh. He lived with a Celtic woman who knew of the secrets of the stones and tea leaf readings and he can't recall anything from that? Bullshit.

Seriously, send them all home. Is the next book them living in two times again (with Claire being in the 1770s still)? Because that would be fine by me.

Jamie also asked Claire to touch him one last time before he “slept” and...I think she did exactly as he asked. And she’s apparently FANTASTIC at it.

And yeah, Roger is just a dud. And they’ve paired him with the plank of wood that is Brianna and try to sell them as the second coming of Jamie and Claire, and...no. Guys, just, no.

I feel bad picking on Sophie so much, because I’m sure she’s a nice person and she seemed natural and fun in the behind the scenes bit where the crew member was chasing her around pretending to be the buffalo, but her performance is just so flat. There was so much more warmth and affection in the scene with Claire and Marsali where Marsali told Claire she was glad Claire was around to be her “Ma.” It was acted well, and you got a great sense of how far those two characters have come over the years in regards to their relationship. Scenes with Bree never have that depth of feeling. Fergus was more charming and useful in his scene with Ian than Roger was the whole episode, because Rog is written to be such a sad sack. I mean, I think Bree is flat and emotionless, but I’m still like, “What does she see in him? It’s like being married to Eeyore, except Eeyore is sometimes cute and charming.”

I continue to wait for this show to stop being the “Roger and Bree Hour” and for them to appreciate what they have in Fergus and Marsali, but I realize I shouldn’t hold my breath.

[Mugsy]

And how is it that he's not familiar with the Last Rites? or anything of the sort. The Reverend lived until Roger was well in his late 20s/early 30s and you can't tell me that he didn't pick up on any sort of religious things.

To be fair, only Catholics do last rites. I've been a churchgoer my whole life and know the Bible pretty well, but I have no idea about last rites. (Except for what I've seen on tv, some mumbling and hand-waving over a dying person, which would probably be disrespectful and ineffective.)

I haven't read the books. Is the show pretty faithful to them?

[smitten]

Okay, as a faithful book reader, I can tell you all one thing publicly -- The writers/producers must also be hella pissed at Sophie/Bree, because in the book BREE takes the first blow with an ax at the bison. So, that shocked me!!!


ETA: Aaaaaand, just like that, I lost the entire post I created with spoilers. Let me know if you're interested. You can even just direct message me with questions if you want. I've read the books multiple times!

And I'll be vague when you ask as to not spoil the actual emotional reactions to things.

ETA2: Based on the pages in the book, where Jamie does NOT ask for them, but we know a lot more about Roger at this point - Roger does know the last rites, he just didn't want to perform them, because he didn't want to admit it was that bad, and he didn't want Jamie to think so either.

[Spinderella]

Mar 30, 2005 10:20:24 GMT -4 smitten said:

Roger does know the last rites, he just didn't want to perform them, because he didn't want to admit it was that bad, and he didn't want Jamie to think so either.

I must have read something over the years about that which triggered my memory into thinking that he did know the Last Rites when I made my post. Thanks for clarifying!

So this week's episode puts a period at the end of the Bonnet storyline. Again, too much Bree, but I'll take it to get rid of this entire thing.

One thing that does irritate me the most is that NO ONE cares to mention, not even to Bonnet that regardless if she said that Jemmy was his at the jail, that Bree SLEPT WITH ROGER before she was raped. Throughout the entire latter part of last season and all of this season to date, there is no affirmation that Jemmy is actually Roger's and that the speculation of him being Bonnet's is no longer on the table.

Wasn't it that Roger has a birthmark and that Jemmy bares that same birthmark? At least from the books, I know that was mentioned (per someone's post here). It's just so unnerving to me that they won't ever clarify that. I get that sleeping with someone before you're married is a big no-no, but even without witnesses, they could still say they were hand-fasted regardless. That it took place even before she was raped and I'm sure Lizzie could of lied or tweaked the truth to confirm that union and that to help Bree out after horrifically botching her identifying Roger and not Bonnet as Bree's rapist.

I'm thrilled that that weaselly lawyer is gone, but of course that proves difficult for Jocasta's manservant, Ulysses. Again, I don't (and I understand this is a different time and all) see how he would be in trouble if Jocasta was in desperate and dire need of being rescued. She was about to be killed and had left no choice in her rescue. I would think that a man attempting to kill a woman, a woman of great fortune and respect, merely because he was trying to extort from her shouldn't punish the person who did him in. I understand that him being black and a servant that's not good, but still, who else was to rescue her? Her old husband who doesn't have the use of his right arm? Eh, this still doesn't sit well with me.

And now there are only two episodes left until the season finale. Of course, it looks like we'll have another cliffhanger on our hands, too. With the current epidemic, I wonder if they'll ever be able to film Season 6?

[roseland]

Spinderella, According to Google:

When the striking a white person justifiable.
Provided always, that such striking, wounding, maiming, or bruising, be not done by the command, and in defense of the person or property of the owner or other person have the care and government of such slave, in which case the slave shall be wholly excused, and the owner or other person having the care and government of such slave, shall be answerable, as if the act has been committed by himself.

So it looks like it’s actually Jocasta whose on the hook and she can claim self-defense.

As for Jemmy’s paternal lineage,

SPOILER: Click to show

there is a scene where Jemmy is revealed to be Roger’s child but I think it’s actually revealed in the next book.

So that’s probably why there wasn’t anything this season.

[kostgard]

Honestly, this episode almost made me give up on the show. So much of it was just bad, lazy writing. Outlander never had the sharpest writing, but this was just awful.

- So Claire goes to town to get craftsmen to make a new syringe for her. WHY DIDN’T SHE DO THIS MONTHS AGO? The answer is so Bree could have her engineering moment, but they made Claire a dummy in order to get there. That’s just lazy. Really, to fix that, give Claire a line of dialogue where she mentions asking the local craftsman for help and he told her there was no way he could make a hollow needle that small, so Claire had to wait until she got into town again to find someone with better skills/more experience. There. Now it’s 50% less stupid and contrived. That’s why what they write is lazy.

- Ian worries the normies won’t like the markings on his face. Claire says she can cover them up with clay. Sure, but...you’d think she would at least try to make it flesh-colored? Instead we learn that black markings = scary and bad, but white markings = totally cool and no one will bat an eye. I would say that they shouldn’t have made Ian the point person if they were worried about that, but since Fergus apparently disappeared the only alternative was Roger and everyone knows that dink would have messed it up. Speaking of...

- Now Roger can beat people up? Sure, Jan. This dude has spent the entire series getting his ass kicked and/or getting lost in the woods. That he can suddenly handle himself in a fight is...a stretch. And the thing is, they could be telling some interesting stories about Roger and how he isn’t “traditional” version of masculinity, but it doesn’t make him any less useful or less of a man. That would be interesting to put a man like that next to Jamie, who inhabits all those traditional masculine traits and put that man in a time period that embraces and values those traditional masculine qualities, and have people like Jamie come to see the value in what Roger brings to the table. But they aren’t doing that with Roger. They just write him as a total sad sack. And he brings nothing to the table except his “just okay” singing voice and that one time he burned a lot of shit.

- Jamie’s plans are always terrible. I’d love it if Ian or someone came prepared with a plan B and when he pulls it out and Jamie looks all shocked, he can say, “Sorry, uncle. But your plans always blow up in your face so I wanted to be prepared.”

- The first 10 minutes or so are what made me nearly throw up my hands and give up. First the bullshit with the syringe. Then Claire and Bree exchange the most boring, stilted dialogue while looking at stock footage of a whale and Bonnet watches them from the monster POV cam. Then Claire goes to look for more shells by...moving inland? They just put her there so Bonnet would get to her first, never mind that it made no sense. Then it all gets punctuated by the worst fight choreography I’ve seen in a while. So, so bad and cheap-looking and lazy.

- Then Claire walking into a brothel and being all “Ew!” and shocked that the madam asked for money in exchange for information. Claire, remember the last time you were in a brothel and you were cool to the girls there? What’s up with the nose-wrinkling when she first comes in? And I would guess even back then they were expected to be discreet, so if you wanted info on a client, it would cost you to make up for the risk they take by blabbing.

- God, the showdown between Bree and Bonnet, which was a watered down version of the Claire/Black Jack showdown. In the after show they banged on about how Bonnet and Black Jack are different (though the difference boils down to “Black Jack was born wealthy so he could stomp around being himself while Bonnet was poor and had to make adjustments”) but they put them in basically the same situation. And again, it’s because they’re trying to make Bree/Rog into Claire/Jamie 2.0, and it just does not work. They lack the charisma and chemistry, and the show hasn’t done enough to make them interesting, distinct characters on their own. I’ve already complained about the missed opportunities with Roger, but same with Bree. It should not be news to me, a regular viewer, that Bree is passionate about engineering. We knew from the start that Claire was interested in medicine because she was constantly pursuing it and learning about naturopathic medicine and applying her knowledge. We should have seen Bree constantly tinkering with stuff around the Ridge if she’s such a natural born engineer. Engineers tinker. They can’t help it. It would have added color to her character. But they didn’t do that. She has mostly spent her time standing around looking pretty and being boring while they try to cram her into a Claire-shaped hole. But she’s a good shot with a rifle, and that’s good character development, right?

- And how dumb is Pippen for trying to murder Jacosta? Bitch, the lady is blind. Just be all, “Oh, I’m TOTALLY writing this all down. It will just take a few weeks for my office to make it all legal and stuff.” Then toss it in fire and wait for Bonnet to do his thing, then collect the full 20%. Jesus, that was stupid.

- The only good thing here is that the Bonnet bullshit is finally over and Bree was the one to take him out rather than making Rog a macho hero who does it for her.

Honestly, I’m just finishing out the season because Ulysses is in trouble and I love Ulysses, Lord John shows up and I will always show up for him (though I know I will just be pissed that he shows up to deliver some exposition and that’s it), and now that the Bonnet bullshit is over it looks like they can finally focus on some big picture/interesting stuff (i.e., the impending Revolution).

[Spinderella]

Apr 26, 2020 9:11:53 GMT -4 roseland said:

Spinderella, According to Google:

When the striking a white person justifiable.
Provided always, that such striking, wounding, maiming, or bruising, be not done by the command, and in defense of the person or property of the owner or other person have the care and government of such slave, in which case the slave shall be wholly excused, and the owner or other person having the care and government of such slave, shall be answerable, as if the act has been committed by himself.

So it looks like it’s actually Jocasta whose on the hook and she can claim self-defense.

I KNEW IT! Basically if the slave owner instructs or is responsible for what that slave does whether it be in self-defense or the like, then it isn't the slave that would be having to suffer any punishment.

I'm pretty sure that the ladies in the brothel would be able to vouch (especially now that they're both dead) that they saw the lawyer and Bonnet together talking over things. And clearly when he kidnapped Bree, he could do nothing but talk about River Run and how they'll be able to live there since he's Jemmy's father. It doesn't take much to put two and two together.

But you know, lazy writers are never going to write anything that makes sense anymore.

Apr 26, 2020 12:29:35 GMT -4 kostgard said:

So Claire goes to town to get craftsmen to make a new syringe for her. WHY DIDN’T SHE DO THIS MONTHS AGO? The answer is so Bree could have her engineering moment, but they made Claire a dummy in order to get there. That’s just lazy.

I made the same comment a few episodes back! They aren't living in the freaking dark ages. There are skilled people that you can easily ask a specific task to be done from them. You have jars don't you? Then clearly, there are glass blowers in town. You have silversmiths, right? Jesus.

Now Roger can beat people up?

My only (ONLY!) takeaway from this was that he was just filled with pure rage and hate for Bonnet. I think that anyone, even someone that has never beaten someone up would and could surprise you if they were able to have at it on the man that raped, kidnapped, and then tried to sell into sex trafficking their wife. Hell, if someone did that to my child, I'd go ape shit on their ass and I've never been in a fist fight, either.

And how dumb is Pippen for trying to murder Jacosta?

That really did not go over well for me. I mean, I'm glad that asshole is dead, but seriously, why didn't he just get his emotions in check and let Bonnet carryout the plan that he was going to do all along? Moron. But you know, women are too emotional and act on a whim, while these shit for brains men have their panties in a bunch because Bree a woman that knew you for less than an hour DIDN'T GET ENGAGED TO YOU. So ridiculous.

Honestly, I’m just finishing out the season because Ulysses is in trouble and I love Ulysses, Lord John shows up and I will always show up for him (though I know I will just be pissed that he shows up to deliver some exposition and that’s it), and now that the Bonnet bullshit is over it looks like they can finally focus on some big picture/interesting stuff (i.e., the impending Revolution).

I feel you, but I've invested too much into the show and will see it through. I'm hopeful that now that the stupid storylines are done and there are only two episodes left, we'll have to see what direction they're going to go. If the next book is better, then maybe we can hope for less Bree/Rog and have them back in the future and fast forward to the Jamie/Claire and 1775/6 peeps only.

[kostgard]

Dammit, just let Bree and Roger leave! Don’t be giving me some cliffhanger that makes it clear that those jerks haven’t gone anywhere.

So Lord John is off to London and he’s taking one of the few other appealing characters with him - roll that in with the fact that the actor who plays Lord John recently said he has no idea if LJ is going to be in season six (and I’m guessing no, since they were scheduled to start filming the next season about now but are delayed due to the lockdown. You’d think they would have the season planned out and they would know who they want by now), they are not enticing me back for the final season. He got one last scene where he pined for Jamie but then his probably last line of the series is about how Bree is impossible to not like? What? Stop trying to me Bree happen!

Honestly, that is just such weak writing, reminiscent of Dawson’s Creek back in the day and how instead of writing Joey to make her a genuinely appealing character, they just had everyone talk about how great she was.

Nice symbolism with Claire being careless with her Saran Wrap (Claire! That’s how alien conspiracy theories start!) reflecting how careless she can be with all her 20th century knowledge.

I really thought Jamie was going to bone Claire straight out the window. And I can’t believe Claire scraped Jamie’s sperm off or out of herself so she could look at it under the microscope.

Sigh. At least we still have Ian (for now).